Happier Grey Podcast with Sarah Winterflood

Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro aging and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or are just considering ditching the dye.

This week I'm joined by Sarah Winterflood. She's a branding photographer and mindset coach whose greatest achievement is being a mum to two brilliant boys who she's managed to feed, clothe and impart a love of skiing to over the past 12 years and counting. Hello Sarah.

Sarah: Hi, thank you so much for having me here. This is exciting.

Helen: How are you? 

Sarah: I’m very good thank you. Yes, I did wash my hair as well this morning, which was, you know, obviously in honour of this, make it 

Helen: Oh, I can ask you that question then. “Cause one of the things that I found since I went grey is I don't, actually don't wash my hair as often.

Sarah: I don't think that has changed for me as much. I think, I'm, yeah, no, that hasn't changed. What has changed, though, with regards to washing my hair is how much better my hair feels. My hair's in really lovely condition now, since I let it go natural.

So that's been a nice thing because we're in a hard water area. So, it was definitely noticeable that when I had dyed hair, I had to take extra care to look after it because it felt very dry and not very nice actually.

Helen: Yeah, mine was quite straw like, because I also bleached it before I let it grow out. 

Sarah: Yeh, so yeh, I was bleached blonde and, yeh, I can remember actually during lockdown that I put a treatment on my head and sort of had it all wrapped up in a kind of turban and I don’t think I was supposed to leave this stuff in my hair for so long, but it was just so dry, so straw-like that I was just like, I've got to do something. It's obviously needing stuff and it did absolutely no good. I think my hair was just like. I'm done. Hmm. That's interesting.

Helen: Okay well, you're making me feel very slovenly because I wash my hair about once a week because it just doesn't seem to get lank in the way that it did when I dyed it.

Sarah: Oh, but that's a good thing.

Helen: , I sometimes forget, but then I have to use it like a much stronger conditioner on it because it's longer than it used to be and it gets very dry.

Sarah: Ah, and is it longer because it's in better condition?

Helen: Um, partly, but also because, I used to bleach my hair blonde, so it's quite a yellowish tone and yellow is not a great colour on me. So, if I let it grow sort of below shoulder length, it used to make me look very drawn. But now it's a more natural colour, I just look healthier and therefore I can have it much longer, which is a bonus I hadn't expected.

My hair is actually longer now than it's been for the last 25 years.

Sarah: Oh wow. Wow. Wow.

Helen: So it's definitely blowing the tradition of having your hair cut very short when you go grey, because I just really don't think that makes any sense at all. 

Sarah: No, I think also when I stopped dyeing, my natural hair colour is actually a lot more flattering to my skin tone and to my face. And I wasn't expecting that at all. So, it actually, suits my skin tone, but then I guess why wouldn't it?

It's, this is me.

Helen: Yeah, exactly. I think we probably have similar skin tones and dyed our hair a similar colour, so we had the same problem without really thinking about it.

Sarah: Yes.

Helen: So, we met about three years ago, I think, during one of the lockdowns, at which point both of us still had dyed hair. So really, I'm curious to know what motivated you to decide to go grey.

Sarah: I don't think it was a conscious decision to go, right, I'm going to embrace my natural hair colour. I think what happened was lockdown occurred. I'd always viewed sitting in the hairdressers for like three hours or so as a chore. I'd also, oh, this is, you know, it takes a big chunk of my time.

I never really utilized it very well apart from reading magazines. It all just felt a bit wasteful of my time. And then there was the expense of it as well. And then the maintenance getting those roots coming through quite quickly. Actually, I felt like that made me age was the roots, the regrowth.

 It didn't feel very edgy. It just looked a bit dirty and a bit, ew, I need to get my hair done again. And there was also the cost element. It costs a lot of money for that upkeep. I'm also quite lazy. Like I can't be bothered to dye my hair myself. 

 So, it kind of just happened and I didn't really get my hair cut very often. I don't think we could anyway, and I just decided to not bother with my hair. There's often days when I don't even know what I look like when I go out the front door. I kind of don't spend too much time in front of the mirror worrying, not worrying, that's the wrong word, but I guess grooming myself like I'll be presentable, but sometimes I don't know if my hair's sort of looking orderly or not.

So, in lockdown there was even less incentive to sort of worry too much. And I think it just was a process. I wasn't really aware of any choice that I'd made to consciously go, that's it, I'm going to grow my hair out. I think what I've always said to myself, and to others actually, is you know, one day I might be bored of this and I might go back to colouring it.

But I think I'm very grateful that I had the time to just not have to think about it at all. And the to go and pay for getting my hair done was taken away because of lockdown. So it kind of just happened, just was a natural thing.

Helen: And, and how did you find when you were actually in the growing out process, as those roots got longer?

Sarah: It was a bit grim. It wasn't very nice. I think when the roots had got to about my eyebrow stage. It was quite noticeable, because I've always said I'm a bit George Clooney, I'm a bit salt and pepper, I feel like that's how my hair looks, and my face is framed with white, but it's also framed with blonde, and I never thought I had natural blonde hair, I just thought I was always mousy brown, but I actually do have blonde hair at the front, so, the growing out stage was, in a way kind of okay because I have white at the front.

So, there wasn't any roots right around the frame of my face. The rest of the hair where it's darker. That was the noticeable regrowth. So, actually I didn't see it. I didn't really see any of that because around my face, it was kind of white this blonde, which had always been there. So perhaps I lucked out really.

Helen: I'm similar to you in that I have white streaks at the front and I'm a bit salt and peppery apart from that, but I spent an awful lot of time with my hair in a ponytail because I really didn't like the stripe.

Sarah: At the front. 

So my hair, if it gets to my shoulder length and a little bit beyond, it kind of is, there is nothing positive about that. It kind of doesn't, unlike you, it doesn't really suit me to have longer hair. I kind of fantasize about having lovely flowing locks, but I think that's an interesting thing as well you know, the focus of how women look.

The chin length is actually a really good flattering length for me. So during lockdown, when I was growing out my hair, I would put it into a ponytail because it was a bit longer, so I could gather it. But I think for me, what I really hated was the dryness of my hair and the terrible condition that was in.

And that's because of the dyeing and the ends were constantly dry and trying to just get a brush through my hair was awful. Everything just felt like a dry, horrible haystack. And that's what I really didn't like. And I'd have lots of broken hairs. So, you know, you'd get all these wispy bits at the top where it had all broken.

So, I would put it in a ponytail and then when I guess we could get haircuts, I'd go in and get a haircut. That was actually a really nice thing, was to go there, get my hair cut, and it was far cheaper than what it used to be because it was just a cut. So that was, that was a nice thing. I still invest in a good haircut because I think that, that's a good thing.

Helen: Do you go as often as you used to? 

Sarah: Gosh, no. No, I don't. I think that's because my hair just feels a lot healthier. It just feels good. I think with my hair, now that I don't have regrowth, there is no marker of time apart from the length, but it seems to grow very slowly.

 It's sort of like one day all of a sudden, I'll go, oh, I need to cut my hair. Cause there's something about it. It's irritating me, but that journey from the. haircut to the next one is very slow and steady and then, it kind of just is like, okay, now I need to go. So, I don't ever really book my next haircut because my haircut is very low maintenance.

It's just a bob and it all seems to grow at the same time, you know, the lengths, there's not a lot of layering and stuff. And I don't have that problem with dry ends anymore. It's lovely.

Helen: Which is cool. Yeah, I've gone from going to the hairdressers every four or five weeks to going every three months now.

Sarah: Yeah,

Helen: Which is fantastic.

Sarah: And why, why is that?

Helen: Because I'm not conscious of the stripe. It used to be when I had it dyed that I would be really happy with it for maybe a week or two, and then I would start to see those roots coming through and I'd always feel uncomfortable and self-conscious with them. And probably more conscious of the white hairs, which is ridiculous, than I am now that my whole head is the same colour.

So, I then had to go, because I didn't feel confident in my appearance, to go and keep having to have it done really, really regularly, whereas now, I just have it cut to keep it in a decent condition. When I first went grey, I had it like you and quite a short jaw length bob with a few layers in it, just to get rid of the colour as quickly as I could face.

Cause I was never going to have the pixie cut, it was just not for me. But now it's way below my shoulders it's getting quite long, which I really like.

Sarah: Yeah, you've got lovely long locks. Oh, it's so lovely, your hair's gorgeous,

Helen: Thank you.

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: Okay. Another question for you then. How did your friends and family react when you told them that you were going to go grey?

Sarah: I don't think I told anybody. It just happened. I think my attitude is very much like it or lump it, it's got nothing to do with you. So, you know, it's my, my hair, my choice, my decision. So yeah, I was like, this is what I'm doing. Interestingly.

I've had a lot of compliments about my hair. I've had a lot of people go, wow, where'd you get your hair done? I was like, I don't, this is my hair. That happens, especially when it gets washed. So people will go, wow, have you had your hair done? I'll be like, no, I just washed it. And they're like, wow, it's really lovely.

It may be because I have this very, obvious white, blonde, like sort of framing of my face. And I think, towards the end of lockdown, there was this thing, like that was a look. So people were paying to get these strips, to frame your face with a lighter colour.

So, I was kind of ahead of the curve really, but just naturally. So that was, that was cool. And I haven't had anyone say, oh, wow, your hair is weird. Or are you thinking about getting it coloured? I've only had compliments. 

I sometimes will go, I don't know, maybe I'll get a colour because the back of my hair I find that a really strange colour. If I pick up the back of my hair and I look at it and I compare it to the front, I'm like, I don't know what that colour is. It's a strange, weird, like mousy strawberry brown.

So, I don't spend too much time thinking about the back of my hair. And that's good because I can't see it. But if I put my hair back, it's almost like I am grey all over. No, everyone's been very complimentary.

Helen: Was that what you were expecting? 

Sarah: I think the thing with me is I didn't really overthink it. I'm open to compliments, so if I receive them, I will accept them with grace and I'll go, thank you very much. And I will then sit with that and I would think, oh, okay.

I'm, I'm happy with my lot, let's say. I didn't always feel like that, to be honest, because I have played around with different hair colours as I've grown up. So, when I was in my twenties, I tried, dark colour. So, I sort of went chestnutty red and it was fun. But the problem with that was that the grey came through really quickly.

So that was really upsetting to me, of like, I can't sustain this look because my natural hair is coming through, and I didn't like that.

Helen: You are a coach and a photographer and one of the things that you need to do in you day job just to get the best out of people, is to make them feel comfortable and at ease with themselves. Any tips on how to do that because obviously if you’re going to go grey, there may be people around you who are going to judge that or you're going to think they're going to judge that in a negative way.

Sarah: That's a good question. So, it's mindset. It's like, how much are you comfortable with yourself? Because, perhaps if you keep your hair colour as you do, That's fine. But if you're thinking about changing your hair colour, or growing it out, what is it that's shifting for you internally?

Cause there's potentially some things that are happening that's making you make that choice. So, with the work I do, the mindset work towards being visible, it's very much about let's get back to the basics of how you feel in your day, your day to day, how you're living your life. Are you actually giving yourself time to look after you?

 If you're putting everything that you do on the basis of how people are perceiving you, how happy is that making you feel? Because, generally, that's not going to be the best way to live your life. The best way is to be really comfortable in yourself, feel very confident in your ability to make your choices and to have your boundaries set and to look after yourself and then everything else from there kind of flows with a lot more ease.

So that's what I work on with women. And as you say, my work is to promote getting visible without the fear and to take away that worry about the judgment of others. Maybe by being grey myself and letting my hair just be natural. That might be a confidence booster for the women that I work with.

I don't know. I'll have to ask them actually. 

Helen: If someone came to you and said they're thinking about going grey, what would you say to them? 

Sarah: I'd say give it a go. I'd say give it a go because if, if it's not for you, then you just go back and you know, it's going to take some time. So, maybe have a strategy if it's something that's a really big deal for you about being seen, you know, growing your hair and you're going through a big transition because obviously we've got to wait for our hair to grow and it takes time.

You know, have a think about, you could play around and you could cover your hair with hats that make you feel really cool or you could get creative wrapping scarves around your head, or clipping it up in different ways. So, you know, you can use going grey and not colouring it and that transition time to be creative and to try things out.

And if people say, oh, hello, who's this new person? You're going, yeah, I'm just trying things out. I'm just having some fun. Give it a go yourself. And, I feel like there's too many benefits for me of having, letting my hair grow out, than there are negatives. So, I would say give it a go because you can always go back.

 Always had the mantra of myself of like, never say never. Who knows? I might have pink hair in about a year's time. Sometimes I'm quite tempted to go for a crazy colour. And then I think, oh, that regrowth, it just feels like a real pain. But then also I think I might just invest in some wigs and then it's easy to change.

But I would say try it. If you're really thinking about it, give it a go. And, also there are brilliant products out there to make your grey really look lovely. You know, if you go for the certain shampoos, so you can still pamper your hair. You know, you're not letting yourself go basically, are you?

You're, you're nourishing yourself.

Helen: Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for joining me, Sarah. It's been really interesting chatting with you. And your hair looks lovely.

Sarah: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier. grey. Have a great week.