Happier Grey with Jeni Smith

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Jeni Smith. She's a networking strategist and founder of NetKno, a company created to help people connect through networking. She's also a PhD student at Durham University, mum to Juno, and wife to David. Good morning, Jeni, how are you?

Jeni: Morning Helen. I'm good, thanks. How are you?

Helen: I'm good, yes, I've just been to the gym, so I'll be lying in a heap later.

Jeni: Fair play to you. I have not been to the gym today, but proud of you.

Helen: I'm going to start by asking you, when did you find your first grey hair?

Jeni: Do you know what? To be honest, I think I've probably been great since my 20s. Back then I used to bleach my hair, so I had like proper blonde. So, I didn't notice them as much. But then in my late 20s, I went brunette. And that's when they started causing me havoc. That's when they start really appearing.

You notice them a lot more, obviously, with brown hair. So late 20s, it became more of a thing that I was aware of, I think.

Helen: And how did you feel about it when you found the first one?

Jeni: Ooh traumatised, I remember I messaged my sister and she was like, oh Jeni, I've had greys for years. She's a few years older than me and she was very like, blase about it, which made me feel better about it. 

Mam, she's always been grey, like from as long as I remember. She'd never dyed her hair. It's now, this like beautiful white colour, like really grey. Whereas when I was younger, it was a bit more salt and pepper grey. But yeah, I always thought it was something that happened to like, in my head, old people.

So, when in my twenties I was finding greys, yeah, traumatized, terrified, didn't know what to do.

Helen: But you were dying your hair already, weren't you?

Jeni: I was, yeah.  I've always experimented with my hair. I think hair was always I'd express myself. So, it's been blonde, it's had pink in it, you know, brunette, different reddy browns, all different. Yeah. I've kind of changed hair colours quite a lot over the years it's a form of like identity and expression.

Um, so it's always, it's always been part of that exploration I think really.

 Helen: You're in the process of growing your hair out.

Jeni: I am.

Helen: Why did you decide to do that?

Jeni: Oh, Helen, so many reasons. 

There's a number of different reasons for me. Looking back as to when I made the decision, the consequences of that decision, I think my why has probably changed, but the reason I initially made the choice, I think partly was practicality, you know, my hair grows quite quickly.

So, I got to the point where I was having to dye it every two, three weeks. You know, I was dyeing it at home because the idea of having to book a hair appointment and pay a hundred pounds to get it dyed every two weeks, that was just never going to happen. I haven't got the time for it. And it's just a waste of money.

With having a young daughter and a husband and we've got busy lives, you know, every couple of weeks I was having to set my alarm for like five o'clock in the morning to get up to put dye on my hair. And I think there was one time and I was just sat there at daft o'clock. And I thought to myself, why am I doing this?

Do you know what part of me was like, men don't have to and I got really angry, and I was like, men don't, I mean, I'm sure men do. They dye their hairs. I'm sure. It's just not as much, I think it's more like men are seen as grey fox kind of thing. Whereas as women, it's a sign of you're on the shelf if you've got grey hair, which is obviously is not the case.

So, I started finding like younger women, I think on social media who were growing out their grey hair and started researching it and looking into like, how long does it take? Can you speed up the process? What does it look like? I was really wanting to know what it looked like throughout the stages.

I was very conscious of, especially at the beginning, as having dark hair as I did, having that like streak of, you know, and I was very self-conscious of it, so did a lot of research before making that decision. I think for me as well, it was part of this ongoing, like, identity journey.

I think, for me it's very much about being a lot more true to myself and authentic, I guess, as well, and embracing that natural hair colour, natural you know, who I am and embracing it rather than being scared of it.

Helen: Which is cool. How are you finding the process of growing it out?

Jeni: I'm finding it so much more fun, and interesting, and exciting than I thought I ever would, to be honest. At the very beginning it was, as I said, it was a bit scary because you feel quite exposed and you feel a bit like people are gonna just be like, oh, she needs to dye her hair. 

So, I felt like I needed to kind of justify “Oh, I'm growing it out.” You know, I'm growing it out and like kind of tell people in reality, people don't care. No one cares if you've grown your hair out. To be honest I'm about eight months in now, and I'm getting a lot of comments now from strangers.

People are saying like, “Oh, I really love it”. So, I'm getting a lot more feedback, which is really nice. 

My hairstyle has changed completely because before I started growing out, I had a fringe and like a central parting, but growing it out, the fringe didn't work. So, I've had to find a new style.

But it's also had a knock-on effect on the clothes that I wear, and the colours I wear, and I wasn't expecting that. I've embraced Vinted, and I've sold a lot of things that the colours don't work for me anymore, going from a brunette to silver grey, certain colours look ridiculous on me. I've found that I'm wearing a lot more like blue and purple and those kind of colours Versus, like cream and things I just can't get away with.

 It's had a lot of knock-on consequences, which I wasn't expecting, but I'm really embracing and enjoying as well, 

Helen:  I saw a post on LinkedIn saying that you were going to go grey. What sort of reaction did you get to that post? 

Jeni: Really? Again, really interesting. I think if people did have a negative reaction to it, they didn't tell me, which, you know, that's fine by me, keep it to yourself. But a lot of like encouragement, especially women. I think a lot of like “Oh, I'd love to do that, but I'm scared”. And there was a lot of those kinds of comments, from women especially. As the grow outs become more apparent, there's a lot more men who are like,” Oh, do you know what? I really love it”. And even my husband said the other day, um, cause I'm due to get it cut soon. And I think that that next cut is going to get rid of the last bits of brown, I think.

And then it'll be full, which I'm really excited for. And he said, do you know what? Because I told him, obviously, I've decided to not dye my hair anymore and grow it out. And again, he didn't say anything bad, but I could see his face was a bit like, hmm, I don't know what to expect from this.

And even him the other day was like, “Do you know what? I actually really like it. I really love it. I wasn't expecting to, and I didn't know if I would”. He didn't tell me that at the beginning. 

I think it's an interesting process because you don't know what you're going to get, until it happens. So, it's teaching me a lot of patience, this. I'm used to being able to very quickly, obviously you can quickly change your dress style, you can quickly dye your hair to a different colour. But growing it out, it's such a slow process and you don't know what you're going to get. 

And it seems to change regularly, there's, you know, chunks that are really white, and there's other bits that are a bit more like black almost, and then the salt and pepper mix in there. And so, he didn't know what to expect, but neither did I. So, it's kind of bit of a bit of a journey. And as I said, I think as it's growing out, a lot more people are really positive, just really, yeah, supportive.

And a lot of people saying, “Oh, I wish I could do that”. I'm like, you can, just stop dyeing it. It saves you money. You don't have to do anything. You just have to not do something. 

Helen: Yeah, I think my husband was quite similar to yours in the beginning. 

Jeni: Was he?

Helen: Yeah. I grew mine out in COVID. He offered to dye it for me. 

Jeni: Oh, did he? 

Helen: It was like, that is so not happening. You are not coming near me with a dye.

Jeni: Not in a million years. Oh, bless him. But does he love it now? Does he, has he like totally 

Helen: Now he likes it. So, yeah, but it was funny. The man who can get wrinkles in gloss paint, there is no way you're going to get anywhere near me

Jeni: Oh, bless him. Oh, he's trying to help as well. Oh, but that's nice though, yeah. 

I think until it, until it happens, you don't know what it's going to look like. I remember even like going on TikTok and seeing if I could find like, you know, you can do, get filters. They change your hair colour. I remember looking for a filter to see if I could get one to give me grey hair, just so I could see what I look like, but I couldn't really find anything.

A lot of blondes, but not many greys, which I think says something in itself. 

Helen: Yeah, I think a lot of people say it's like a fingerprint. It's so individual. 

Jeni: Yeah, that's a really nice description. Absolutely. It is. and it's one that seems to evolve. And again, like I said about my Mam, looking back at photos of her, you know, her grey has changed. 

So even once it grows out to grey, that's not what it's going to be like forever. That's going to constantly change, which I think is a really beautiful thing. It's really nice. 

Helen: Cool. So, the next thing I want to ask you, obviously your daughter is quite young, isn't she?

Jeni: Yeah. She's four, nearly five. Bless her. Legend. Yeah. 

Helen: You're taking her to school, I'm assuming?

Jeni: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's in school already. So, she's one of the youngest in her class, but she's the end of August baby. So, she turned four and then started school like the week after. Um, so yeah, I take her to school, pick her up. 

Helen: Any reaction from the other mums?

Jeni: No, I mean, because they didn't know me really before, she started school in September and I stopped dyeing it in November of the same year. So, there's only a few months. So, they didn't know me well enough. Even if they did have thoughts. I'm sure there was thoughts and comments if maybe, but no, no one said anything.

I know one of the girls really well and our kids are in the same class. I remember I did the school run one morning, and When was just, It did just look when you look straight on at me, it did look just grey.

And she, I was like, morning! She turned around, she went, you look fabulous. She loved it, so that was really lovely. 

I've had a lot of comments around like, because I've got blue eyes, and I think having the brown hair, you couldn't, it just, you know, but having the silver really makes my eyes a lot bluer.

So, I've had a few comments about, “Oh, your eyes are really bright blue, aren't they?” And I never used to get those comments when my hair was dyed. So, I think that's kind of had a little shift as well. Um, but no, if they have spoke about it, they've not done it to my face. 

Helen: Has your makeup changed at all? Since you?

Jeni: Yeah! Makeup, again, I think lipstick, I need a bold colour. That works really well, I've noticed. A lot more, like eyeliner, a black eyeliner really helps me not look as washed out I think, and a bit like, you know more alive. 

And like quite natural though as well quite natural colours, I think. I think embracing my natural hair has also had the knock-on effect of me wanting to like, embrace more natural colourings and stuff, I think as well. 

Talking about the colours of the clothes I wear, I'm more conscious about like, well, what colours actually suit me? And I never really thought about that before. I just picked clothes that I liked. Whereas now when I buy clothes or makeup, I'm like, right, what colours actually work for me? So, it's, it's kind of brought that to my consciousness. 

Helen: Okay. Well, obviously I met you before you started growing out. And my recollection of you is that you always wear bright colours. 

Jeni: Yes, I've always liked bright colours. As a networker, Helen, it's good to wear a bright colour. You know, you stand out at an event, don't you? 

Some of the colours that I maybe, used to wear wouldn't work on me now though. Looking back, I think, as the grey's grown out, purple's a really good one for me. It's one that I would never usually, previously think of, but actually it does, it works really well. Certain pinks, like a hot pink works well and blues. I just got a really lovely two piece, like, trouser and a top from Cos, and it's like a beautiful royal blue that works really well for me as well with the new hair colour.

Again, it wasn't something necessarily, I would go for bright colours previously, but I wouldn't give it that much thought, whereas I do think about it a lot more now.  

Helen: Can I ask you a more general question about ageing and how you feel about aging generally?

Jeni: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think it's wonderful. I remember I saw something once and it said like we should instead of calling it like an age we should call it a level. So, I've made it to level 39 now. You know, like instead of being like this is how old I am this is what level I'm on, and I love that I'm like, yeah, I've survived and I'm on level 39 or whatever level you're on.  

I think for me, as I'm getting older I just find that I'm getting more comfortable with myself.

So, six years ago now I decided to give up smoking, and then the two months after that I gave up alcohol, so I've not had alcohol in six years now. And those two choices have been a real catalyst for everything that's happened since in the last six years for me.

So, becoming a mum, and starting my business, starting a PhD, and then having self-confidence to do things like growing out my grey hair and just being who I am. It's all kind of been a knock-on from that. So, for me, getting old is about finding out more about like who I am, and building a relationship with myself. And that brings me so much more joy in every other relationship that I have and every other challenge I set myself, or you know, finding out what actually I want from life and then just making it happen and doing it. 

And yeah, so growing old for me, it's like, it's proper adventure and a gift. It's a blessing, isn't it?

Helen: It is completely, yeah. We're very privileged in the UK to have the length of lifespan that we do. 

Jeni: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Helen: So, other questions then, in terms of health, obviously, presumably feeling much healthier for not smoking and not drinking? 

Jeni: Oh yeah. 

Helen: Are you thinking about anything else as you're ageing in terms of your health?

Jeni: Yeah. Another thing I did, when I was pregnant, I got obsessed with vegetables, and as cravings go, that's not a bad one. But it never left me. So, I've been vegan now for about five years. And I love, like, I call it rainbow food. So, like healthy, nutritious, colourful foods like vegetables and fruit, and like all different kinds of varieties of textures and flavours, and things. 

So, when it comes to like diet, I like don't get me wrong, Pick and Mix is my weakness, I love Pick and Mix. I love crisps. But, in general, I am very aware and, I do get a lot of enjoyment from healthy, colourful foods. Obviously not drinking and not smoking really help. 

I've recently taken up running again. This is my third attempt at running.

Okay. So, when I first quit drinking, I was like, oh, I'm gonna take up running. And I'm gonna be one of those people that's like, you know, you see them when you're driving by and they look so free and happy. And it's not like that for me. It's painful. It's torturous. 

The last time I tried running I built up and I did a 10k. And I was really proud of myself and that, and then I never ran again. That was a few years ago now. 

But now my little one's a bit older. I needed to introduce something physical into my life. I knew I wanted to do some kind of exercise. I used to be a swimmer. So, I was a competitive swimmer when I was younger, and I was like third in the country at one point. 

But the time, I haven't got the time to get in the car, drive to the swimming pool, get in the pool. And usually it's not open till six, to get in the pool, do a swim and then get out and ready, blah, blah. Like, I haven't got time for that. Whereas with running, it just adds a half hour onto your morning instead of adding an hour and a half onto your morning.

So, I can do that. So, I've introduced that again, maybe like a couple of months ago. And I'm doing one of those podcasts that like builds you up over time. So, I'm already feeling the benefits of that and like feeling good. 

I've just turned 39 and, you know, pushing 40. Mid-forties, any time now, like perimenopause is going to come in. Menopause in general is going to hit. If I can do things now that makes that process easier, by looking after myself through like diet, and exercise, and natural things that. I can control and balance out my like hormones with good, happy, natural hormones, hopefully that I'll make that process easier and, you know, means that I have to be less reliant on drugs and whatever else. Hopefully, I mean whether it works out that way, who knows, but I'm trying my best, Helen, and that's all we can do, isn't it?

Helen: It's a mystery to me, I have to say, I didn't really have any problems other than a few hot flushes.

Jeni: Oh, amazing. My mum was like that. She just kind of sailed through it. Whereas other people, I know it can impact you for years potentially.

Helen: Completely floors them, yeah, 

Jeni: Yeah, [00:19:00] 

Helen: So who knows? 

Jeni: it's a potluck. 

Helen: I do think part of managing your health will have an impact. 

Jeni: Hopefully I'll take after you and my Mam. 

Helen: Okay, so I’m going to ask you one last question. 

Jeni: Okay.

Helen: If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey. What would you say to them? What advice?

Jeni: Oh, do it, embrace it. Do you know what? Looking back on it now, it was actually probably one of the more braver decisions I've made in terms of going against social norms, I guess, in a way. So, if someone came to me saying, “Oh, I'd love to do it”. I'm like, you dig deep lass. Or guy, find that it's that courage, that bravery, because when you do it, I promise it is so worth it.

And it gives you so much more. It gives you more. It gives you a lot. Like I've got so much more from it, from the process. I've learned a lot think embracing my natural, you know, who I am and, yeah, it's a lot more like deep than it should be because really, at the end of the day, you're just growing your hair.

It's a very normal thing to do, but actually it means a lot and it is really, really worth it. So, if someone's considering doing it, oh my word, do it, do it. I, yeah, I can't be a bigger advocate for growing out the greys than I already am. 

Helen: Well, that's brilliant. I think that's a great place to stop. So, I'll say thank you for joining me today, Jenny, and have a good day. 

Jeni: Thanks for having me, Helen. See you later. 

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier. grey. Have a great week.