Happier Grey Podcast with Jenny Gordon

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Jenny Gordon, a positive communication specialist and brilliance coach, increasing the clarity of your conversations in business and life. Hello, Jenny. How are you?

Jenny: Hello Helen, I am incredibly well because the sun is almost shining here today, so that always makes you feel better, or makes me feel better, doesn't it?

Helen: Yeah, the sun is shining here. And I’m I the North East of England, so it doesn't always shine up here, unfortunately, but yeah, summer may finally have arrived. How cool would that be?

Jenny: Well, hopefully it'll be warm.

Helen: This is true. So, I am going to start by asking you, when did you find your first grey hair?

Jenny: Oh, my first grey hair, I think, I probably found when I was about 17. And I was a brunette. So my hair before, I embraced my platinum, was a dark brown, so single grey hairs stick out quite clearly.

Helen: Yeah, and how did you feel about that first grey hair?

Jenny: I think when you're 17 and you find your first grey hair, you then do that thing. We had a saying in our family that for every grey hair you pulled out, you grew seven more. So, I kind of ignored it and thought, oh, hey ho, I'll just pretend it's not there.

And I've always had a lot of hair, so I thought it would be very easy to cover it up.

Helen: Okay, and did you keep on like that? Or did you start dyeing it at some point?

Jenny: No, I started dyeing it because I, subscribed to this conditioning that around at the time. And I think probably, is maybe still lurking, is that grey hair in women is ageing, and grey hair in men is distinguished. And I'm really sad to say that I said that out loud, on many occasions, and so I spent many, many, many years, dyeing my hair.

Helen: Okay, can you remember what age you started dyeing it?

Jenny: There's two kinds of dyeing, isn't there? So, there's the home stuff. So, I probably, when I started dyeing it at home, myself, I was probably in my late, mid to late twenties.

And then when there was quite a lot of grey, and I felt that my home dyeing wasn't enough. And also I wanted to take care of my hair, so I thought I should go to a professional.

I had a very, very good hairdresser, who promised me that they would, dye my hair but also keep it in good condition and look after it. Because I had incredibly shiny hair, lots of people who have dark hair have very shiny hair, and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't ruining the condition by putting lots of chemicals on it.

Darren was my hairdresser at the time, had him for many years and he was a fabulous colourist and, he used to, look after it for me.

Helen: Okay, so when did you start going to him? Was that in your thirties, or? 

Jenny: Yes, probably my early 30s I think, well mid 30s, 35.

And I stayed with him, that was when I lived in Scotland, and I stayed, a client of his until I moved back to England in my fifties. And I have to say, I considered, seriously considered, he had a salon in the North East in Newcastle, and I seriously considered, traveling by train.

Every now and then, up to his salon in Newcastle, because I was so terrified of handing over my hair to somebody else. 

Helen: Why did you decide then to embrace your greys? 

Jenny: I think in common with lots of people, I did find a fabulous hairdresser and a beautiful colourist down here, and it got to the stage where probably, I was having to, touch it up every couple of weeks. And then lockdown hit us and we weren't allowed to go out anywhere. And so, I had no access to hairdressing and, I wouldn't have dyed it myself at that stage.

So, I let it, grow like everybody else did. And I emerged looking like a skunk. With a great big white stripe down the middle, and my hairdresser said, “Oh, this colour underneath is so beautiful. You should just let it go. Keep it, stop covering it up”. And I said, but I can't grow it out because it would take too long. And I don't love looking like a skunk. 

So, she said, well, the only other option is to strip all of the colour out of the rest of it, because underneath the colour that we've been putting on for years is grey. So that's what I did. I made an appointment and I was there for a long, long time because you have to do it in layers.

It's a bit like reverse highlights, and it took ages. I think I was in the hairdressers for about six hours. And I left, with my natural colour underneath. It was a shock, because I looked so different. 

I had actually bought a wig. Before I did that, to try it on to see what I would look like with my hair this colour. I had to experimented in the privacy of my own home to see what it would look like. But yes, that's how I did it.

I think always at the back of my mind was my hairdresser had said to me, Jenny, what's the worst that can happen? The worst that can happen is that you hate it, and you can dye it back again. But I absolutely, I can't tell you how much I love it. I absolutely wish I had done it years ago. 

I love the fact that people, random strangers come up to me in the street and say, excuse me, can you tell me where you get your hair done? Cause the highlights are fabulous. I was like, this is nature. I do nothing. This is just nature.

I've never been able to have highlights because my hair was always so dark. So having highlights was always tricky. But I love it. I just love it. And I've almost forgotten what it was like. When I see pictures now of my hair dark, I kind of go, yes, that was me. Because I've forgotten, what it was like to have dark hair. I wish I'd done it years ago. I absolutely love it. It's quartered my hairdressing bill.

 I just love it.

Helen: Cool. So, what sort of reaction have you had from other people?

Jenny: Well, it's been incredibly positive. I don't think there has been one person. And I know a lot of people. I'm a natural extrovert. So, I have a lot of friends and obviously love a bit of networking for business. So, I know a lot of people. And I don't think I have had one negative comment. 

Everybody's gone, wow, your hair's fabulous. The reaction of people has been incredibly positive. And going back to that original thing of, grey is ageing in women and distinguished in men. Almost the opposite is true. People have said, “Oh my goodness, you look younger than ever.”

I think it does help that lots of young people have embraced dyeing, they dye their hair my colour. So that helps, doesn't it? It's quite trendy at the moment. Lots of young people are doing it. But I think, I could absolutely say from the bottom of my heart that it hasn't aged me in a negative way at all.

In fact, the opposite. It's given me a new lease of life, a great joy, that I'm making the most of.

Helen: And I think a lot of that has to do with, particularly if you're dyeing your hair very dark, is your complexion, because that changes as well. And when you've got natural hair, it's going to look fine with your face, whereas when you dye it, it's it may or may not.

It's like any colour that you might choose to wear. Some of them are going to flatter you and some of them aren't. So, it does tend to make you look healthier, I think, if you go for the natural colour.

Jenny: Absolutely. I dyed my natural colour. But you are right. You have to, soften it. We kind of regress to the mean, don't we? With colour, hair colour and skin colour. We get softer, as we get older. So things soften.

Although I was dark, I was a lighter version of dark before I went grey. But you're absolutely right. 

I haven't found, that my hair texture has changed. I think a lot of people say that their grey hair is wry, much coarser. And that hasn't been my experience.

I do use a shampoo and conditioner, that was designed by a woman with grey hair. Who specifically wanted to address the features of grey hair, because I think it is more porous. So, the care of it, I take good care of it.

Helen: Okay, so what shampoo and conditioner are you using?

Jenny: it's called White Hot Hair.

Helen: Okay.

Jenny: And they have, hair masks and, things as well to, keep it in good condition. Because obviously having embraced it, you want to make sure that you, keep it in the best condition it can possibly be, don't you?

Helen: Yeah, so has that got a purple tint to it or is it just an ordinary colour?

Jenny: You can choose. There are some brightening shampoos that you can use, but they recommend that you don't use them all the time. So, I use mine once a week,

Helen: Okay.

Jenny: Once a fortnight. So, not all the time. If you use a hairdryer or any heat appliances, that can make your hair go yellower, can't it? And, also sunshine.

One of my shampoos has got, a bit of blue in it. 

Helen: Okay. I just use an ordinary shampoo. I keep thinking, read all about these shampoos and I think should I be using those. But I’ve always used an organic, plant-based shampoo my whole life. Well, the last 20, 30 years. I'm calling that my whole life. So, I just never got around to changing and I keep thinking, should I?

Is my hair going to go yellow? And it's really hard to tell because my natural colour's like a dark blonde. So, I look like I've got highlights.

Anyway I'm going to ask you another question now about ageing generally, and how you feel about ageing, and where you're at in the ageing process.

Jenny: I am hugely pro-ageing, because I believe it is a privilege. And it is a privilege that is denied to many. I'm sure I'm not alone by, sharing that I have lost friends and family members far too young. I subscribe to the view that life is incredibly precious and that ageing is something we do from the moment we're born until, we step off this world.

So, it's something that I am incredibly proud of, and privileged to be part of. And my grandmother always used to say, and she was 97 when she died, and she always used to say that you get the face you deserve.

And that, your beauty comes from within, and that actually it has nothing to do with how wrinkled or not you are. It has to do with the joy that radiates from the inside and, you can put lots of expensive creams and serums and all sorts of things on your skin to help it and to care for it.

But the essence of who you are shines through your skin and your face. And actually, that's what keeps you young. Age is often, as much about your attitude to it, as it is about the number of years on your clock, or the candles on your cake.

Helen: I like that attitude and I actually think it's probably true the older you get as well.

Jenny: Well, yes, because you recognize that it's a privilege, don't you? And that there is so much, in life to be grateful for and to appreciate. And I'm not saying the world is a perfect place, and I'm not saying that shh doesn't happen. And that, terrible things don't go on, but at the same time there is also so much to be grateful for and to enjoy.

It's a great thing to do living. I like it a lot. I'm intending to do it for as long as I can possibly. Eek it out!

Helen: Okay, so a question related to that then, so are you consciously doing anything to protect your health as you get older, so diet or exercise wise or anything like that? 

Jenny: Yes, I think sleep is really important. I'm one of the lucky ones, I sleep well. But I do have, they call it sleep hygiene, don't they? Ah, sleep hygiene habit, so I don't have a television in my bedroom, I don't have any, gadgets. Oh, that sounds a bit cheeky, doesn't it?

I don't have lots of electrical stuff in my bedroom. I don't watch the television before I go to bed. I have a natural kind of winding down, before I go to bed. I aim to be in bed for kind of 10 o'clock-ish.

 And it doesn't matter if I miss the odd night, but most of the time, sort of 10 o'clock feels like a natural kind of bedtime.

I think being out in nature and getting outside as much as you can, particularly when you work from home, is really important for our health, being outside. Whether it's raining or not is really important. 

I love food. I try and make sure that I eat as healthily as possible. Sometimes I'm more successful than others.

And I think just generally looking after yourself, and your skin, your whole self from the inside as well as the outside.

Helen: Yeah, I think also, looking after your mental health by seeing your friends, making time for that kind of thing, and trying not to get too stressed all the time. 

Jenny: Absolutely. That's the easy bit for me, as a natural extrovert. That was one of the reasons that lockdown was so hard, was because we were incarcerated by ourselves. And that was really tricky for me. I love being back outside, and seeing friends, and spending time with family.

All of those things are really important.

Helen: I'm going to ask you a question about your style, your personal style. Do you think that's changed at all since you've gone grey? The sort of colours you wear, the styles you wear, that kind of thing?

Jenny: My style hasn't changed, but the colours that I wear have, yes, it's a softening. I've always loved vibrant, what I would call clear, vibrant, sort of clear colours. 

I had my colours done a long time ago, they used to do colour analysis in seasons in those days and I didn't really fit into the season. So that was a bit tricky. One of my colour consultants told me that my eyes were the wrong colour, which I thought was hilarious. 

I wore cooler colours, which are not as flattering as they might be. When I went grey, I had my colours redone, and actually my business branding, I embraced the whole thing. Although I still like vibrant colours, they're softer. Warm, soft, but still deep.

I haven't gone pale pink and pale blue and, I'm still deep, but they're just a bit softer. You can always tell, can't you, I know that if I'm wearing something that's too bright, then what you see is the colour first and not the face, which is never an ideal look, because you want people to see you first rather than what you're wearing.

But I think my personal style, is as dramatic as it ever was. That hasn't changed.

Helen: I'm going to ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said I was thinking about going grey, what would you say to them? Any advice?

Jenny: Do it, do it, do it, do it. 

Recently, I won a modelling competition. It was about pro-ageing and positivity about ageing. There were five of us who won the competition, and all of us had grey hair.

We were of different ages, different ethnicities, different shape sizes, everything. But the one thing that we all have is grey hair. And yet there was so much variety in the colour of the grey. And it’s just so exciting. It’s fascinating to see all the different 50 shades of grey, in the best possible way. 

One of the most wonderful things about being grey, is finding out what kind of grey you'll be. Because it's like unwrapping a present, isn't it? It's like, ooh, um, what's in here? 

So, the advice that I would give to anybody who's thinking about it is do it. Celebrate it, embrace your platinum, or whatever colour you are and, enjoy every second of it, you'll never look back. 

Helen: Cool. Well, I think that’s a great place to stop. So, I’m going to say thank you for joining me. It’s been lovely chatting to you. And enjoy the rest of your day.

Jenny: It's been a pleasure, Helen. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.