Happier Grey Podcast with Maria Elena Pamies

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Maria Elena Pamies. She lives near Barcelona and is a single mother with two children. She's an energy healer and therapist specializing in gender identity. And is also known as the Cross-dressers Fairy Godmother.

Maria: Yes.

Helen: Good morning, Maria. How are you?

Maria: Good morning. Thank you so much for having me here. It's a pleasure to talk to you, Helen. So, thank you so much for inviting me.

Helen: I'm going to start by asking you a little bit about your grey hair journey. When did you find your first grey hairs?

Maria: Let's say in my early twenties. It was quite early. 

This morning I was thinking about all my journey with grey hair. I don't have siblings, I'm the only child. And I grew up following my mum every single week to the hairdresser salon. Every Thursday afternoon we were there because for my mum, it was like, the sacred moment of the week.

So, it was very important for me, this image, especially, when we talk about hair. So, it was quite natural for me to start dyeing my hair when I see this first, white hair appearing. I mean, it was no brainer for me. Then I got married, I had children, and it was quite a challenge to go every month to the hairdresser salon to dye my hair again. So, I started doing it at home.

And at some point, I realized that, I was hiding myself also. Hiding my grey hair or my white hair was a way to hide my real Maria Elena. It so natural for me. 

But then, as time goes by, I got divorced. And at that moment I started, making my own choices, and started leading my life, I feel for the first time. And one day I realized, my hair is getting weaker and weaker. And part of that is because how I am treating my hair. The same way that it was natural at the beginning to dye my hair, it became natural to stop doing it. and just let my natural hair to appear and to shine because for me is, a blessing.

Helen: How old were you when you decided to?

Maria: It was, five years ago, more or less. So, I was 48.

Helen: Okay. Just before COVID then.

Maria: Yeah, exactly. Before that.

Helen: We chatted before we came on, you had an early test of your conviction, didn't you, when you were doing your grow out?

Maria: Yeah. Even though I told you that it was quite natural, it was also challenging for me. Because, I decided to follow the whole process, not to dye my hair for the last time, using a grey colour or a white colour. Because in the past, I always used a really dark one.

I decided to follow the process so that the difference will be obvious not only for myself, but also for the people around me, watching all my process.

And I remember when my grey hair was like two centimetres, something like that. You know, when you see a person, especially women with this one-centimetre root hair that is grey or white. And you don't know if they stopped dyeing because they wanted or because they were lazy. 

At that specific moment, I won two tickets to go to the opera in Barcelona, you know, this big theatre, Liceu. And I decided to go there with my daughter.

And I asked myself that question. I am ready to be seen and judged maybe as a lazy person or a person who doesn't take care of her image? I am ready to show up during my process accepting that my grey hair is growing? And I said, okay, let's do it. 

And I went there and then I realized that no one was looking at me. No one was, even thinking about my grey hair, about my process. No one was judging me, because no one was paying attention. And it was like, yeah, if this is natural for the rest of the world, this is also natural for me.

Helen: Okay.

Maria: It’s my process. It was like an awakening.

Helen: Were you less self-conscious about the stripe after that? 

Maria: Yeah. And now I see that it came also with internal awakening and internal growth. I was for the first time allowing myself to be me, in all aspects of my life.

Helen: I think that's one of the things that quite a lot of people say, that is when you start, you think it's just growing your hair out. But in fact, it's a much wider journey around self-acceptance, and acceptance of where you're at in the ageing process.

Maria: Exactly. Yeah. It was like, the natural consequence of the inner change, that was also showing up external.

Helen: I'm going to ask you a slightly different question now, just to try and understand, the culture around going grey in Spain. Is it normal for women in Spain to dye their hair or do a lot of them choose to go grey?

Maria: I would say that now, I see more women that are choosing to go grey. And it's because, we have more role models.

Helen: Mm hmm.

Maria: Before I made my personal choice, I saw women around me or even on social media. And I said, oh, that's something I can consider. The more I started, seeing grey hair presence around me, the more confident I became about making that decision.

Now it's easier and is accepted, it’s not something weird. And I received a lot of acceptance and support around me. Even my mum, my mum is still going to the hairdresser salon every single Thursday of her life. She's now 80. And she's accepting me, even though there is a part of her thinking well, if I have a daughter with grey hair, it means maybe I'm older than what I thought. 

But I feel really me and so happy to be me at last. Let's see that.

Helen: How did your friends react when you told them that you were going to go grey? 

Maria: Well, I don't remember telling them. I was just showing them that was my choice. And of course, all kinds of opinions like, okay, cut your hair so that the process will be easier. Because I had quite long hair.

And I decided, no. I want to live the whole process. I want to experience what it is to really change because I want. And what it is to be consistent with my choices,

Helen: Okay.

Maria: not to let any for everybody's opinion or anyone's opinion to change my mind.

Helen: How long did it take then? It must have taken quite a while.

Maria: The whole process maybe nine months, one year. I don't remember exactly. 

Helen: I think it would have been longer than that.

Maria: Maybe, maybe I don't remember. Helen, I tried to remember. 

And I also remember when my hair grey was, maybe 20 centimetres, I was like, half grey and half black. I decided to go to a professional photographer and do professional pictures of me with my son.

So, it was also like saying, there's nothing to hide. This is me. I am changing. I am evolving. This is part of life. And I'm so proud of that. So proud of myself and so proud of the process, that I decided to take professional photographs about that.

Helen: Cool. Oh, you see, by that stage I was just getting impatient. So, I did end up having my hair cut shorter not really, really short, but shorter during the process, just cause I, my hair was blonde, bleach blonde. And I just was like, I don't want to see any, any more. I just want it to be done now.

Maria: Yeah. And that's also okay. I mean every process is different. I choose to follow that path, but yeah, there is no one way for me to do that. I felt comfortable during this process and so proud of that. Yes, really.

Helen: Good. And you're loving your grey hair now that it's all grown out?

Maria: Yes.

Helen: How long is it now?

Maria: Now, well, I cannot tell you. 30cm, 40.

Helen: It's about shoulder length. 

Maria: Yeah, yeah.

Helen: Cool. It's because you had it tied up. That's one of the other things that I do find quite funny, cause I have long hair and obviously all the Instagram photos of people are with them with their flowing hair. And the reality is that 90 percent of the time it's tied up in a ponytail, as soon as you want to do anything practical, it's tied up.

Maria: Yeah, that’s the thing.

Helen: I'm going to ask you a little bit about ageing generally. And how you feel about the ageing process, and where you're at with it?

Maria: Now I'm 53. And what I feel is that I'm growing younger, because I feel younger and more energized and, also more beautiful than 10 years ago.

I feel that this is because I am really comfortable with myself, and I didn't have the same level of confidence 10 years ago. Or even five years ago.

So, I see ageing, or growing younger, as a natural process. And for me it comes with a lot of peace and harmony in my life. It's like, okay, this is life. Also, with acceptance. And acceptance doesn't mean conformity. It means, strength, connecting with my inner strength, and connecting with life.

Helen: Which is cool. In terms of your style and the way you present to the outer world, has that changed at all? Like the sort of things you wear and that kind of thing?

Maria: Do you mean, physical appearance like clothes and everything?

Helen: Yes. 

Maria: I was married for almost 20 years. I was not aware that I was into a very abusive relationship in terms of psychological abuse. 

Helen: Yeah.

Maria: So, I was not able to make my own choices around clothes, around anything, in fact. And now I am. So now I wear what I want and the way I want it. And I combine different patterns or different fabrics. If I want to do that, not because someone is telling me, just wear these or wear that, or don't use those things together. 

This is about me. And now I do everything what makes me feel comfortable, and at peace with me. And this is, about clothes, about lifestyle, about business, about relationships, about everything.

Helen: That's brilliant. I'm glad that you finally found peace. In terms of health then, are you doing anything to age healthily? In terms of fitness and nutrition are you aware of doing anything?

Maria: Yes. What I do around food, I start my day with a green smoothie.

Helen: Okay.

Maria: That was completely impossible, one year ago, let's say that. 

I live my life slowly, which means starting my day with meditation, with a gratitude journal. This is like my non-negotiable. 

And what is giving me health, let's say holistic health, not only physical, but also mental and emotional, is again, doing what makes me happy, doing what I want. Not letting the external world decide what to do at what time, where to go and with whom. 

Helen: Okay. That’s marvellous to have that luxury.

Maria: Yeah. It is a luxury. Yes.

Helen: Going back a little bit. In Spain, during COVID, did a lot of women go grey, like happened in the UK and the US?

Maria: For some of them, I think, and also for me, it was a moment to reflect on so many things. Some of them, they decided to just leave the hair grey, because they had no access to the products or to the hairdresser salon. And it was an opportunity to take this step, that they were not ready to do by themselves. So, it's like the environment is inviting me to do that. Okay. Let's try. 

If I don't like it, no one is watching me, so just let's try. And some of them, they decide, oh, that's not so bad as I thought. In fact, I feel more comfortable with myself. When I look at me at the mirror, I see that there is a real woman there. It's not a product of fashion or something that is now in the top 

Helen: I'm going to ask you one last question then. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice would you have for them? 

Maria: Follow your heart. If you want to grow hair just because everyone around you is doing that, but you don't feel comfortable, don't do it. But if it's your heart telling you, do that, no question.

Helen: Brilliant. That's one thing that quite a lot of people have said to me is it is your choice for you to make and not for anyone else. Okay.

Maria: Exactly.

Helen: And if it is your choice, when you're doing it, you're much more likely to stick with it, than if it's something that you feel that you're pressured into doing.

Maria: Sure. And also, if you feel comfortable with that, and you love yourself with grey hair, everyone around you will accept that. So, this is a question of you.

Helen: Yeah. Agreed. Well, thanks so much for joining me. It's been really interesting chatting to you.

Maria: Thank you, Helen.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.