Happier Grey Podcast with Dain Baird Rogers

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Dain Baird Rogers, who will be 61 in July. She's an accountant by trade who has recently been dabbling in some modelling. Hello, Dain, good to speak to you. 

Dain: I'm looking forward to my first podcast with you. 

Helen: I'm going to start by asking you what was your hair like when you were a child? 

Dain: My hair was curly, and had a reddish hue. It was never very long, and it was very difficult to put in, where I was born we called plaits in Guyana, South America, we would plait our hair. 

Mine was never one to stay in plaits. I was a child always running around the village with my hair out like an Afro. Which I still prefer to this day. I don't like my hair being in plaits, or being tugged on too much. 

Helen: Did you colour your hair at all when you were in your teens? 

Dain: In my teens, no, I did not colour my hair in my teens. I started colouring my hair much older. It was not a thing growing up in my village to colour your hair as a teenager. I've never seen a teenager in my country at that time colour their hair. 

Helen: Which is very different, I'm in the UK and quite a lot of teenagers muck around with bright colours like pinks and blues and purples and all of that sort of stuff.

Dain: No, never seen it in Guyana, in the village I grew up in Buxton. No teenager ever coloured their hair. 

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first grey hair, or white hair? 

Dain: I think I found my first grey hair in my 20s. It was somewhere in the middle of my head and the first thing I did I just plucked it out.

Helen: Do you know why you plucked it out? 

Dain: It just looked odd. And I didn't want it. It didn't belong, I think on my head. To me, it was a fluke, that should never have happened. 

Helen: Did you get many more grey hairs quickly after that? 

Dain: No, not many more after that. And they would be in the middle of my head. But later in my late twenties, they would start popping out like on the side of my hair, the front and they were a little white, I call them shark teeth.

I hated how they look. So, I was constantly plucking them out. Or you would use a mascara brush to hide it. They had like little things like lipstick colour. You would colour it. The horrible thing about that is if you scratch your head it would get in your fingernails.

So that was a pain. But I did that for a while. 

Helen: And then did you go for an all over dye? 

Dain: Then I started trying the dyes. I would try different colours. Sometimes there were three or four different colours in my hair, because I would do it at home. 

I remember one time I, bleached my hair out and then put a colour to say, if you bleach the hair, then the colour would set better. So, my hair become like blonde. And then I put a colour in it. I washed it out. And then the next day it turned green.

I called the customer service number on the box of the dye. And they said it was so fascinating that very few people actually call, if there's something goes wrong. So, they told me what to do to correct that mistake, which I did. It worked somewhat, but you know, I had to live with a green colour for a while.

I continued that for a little bit. Sometimes, you will get a wrong colour. And it would be so dark in comparison to my hair that when you would pass a mirror, you have to do a double take, because you don't recognize the person. It was so black.

 I've done it all. I've done henna colour. You do the natural dyes. And one of the things I found, because you are using regular dye and not for grey hair, the grey hair used to pick up the hues of the colour. So, I would have black hair with little hints of red or green or blue or whatever colour I was trying out at the time.

Because it was never done professionally. And when I did it professionally, it was very expensive, but you know, that continued over a long period of time. 

Helen: How many years would you say you dyed it for? 

Dain: I would say I dyed my hair for over 20 years. 

Helen: Why did you decide to stop? 

Dain: Once it starting to get hints of grey, I just wanted it to turn grey complete because my grandmother had this beautiful head of grey hair.

So, I decided to stop, because I found, when I cut my hair short to my scalp, the grey actually looked very nice. It made me look pretty and I decided after that, not to go back to dye my hair. It was just easier to just continue, on that path.  

Helen: When was that? 

Dain: It happened before COVID, but COVID made it even more. Cause, I used to go to the barber, to cut my hair, cause it was cheaper than going to a professional salon where women cut your hair. 

But when COVID happened, I didn't have anybody to cut. So, I used my husband's razor, and I decided to just shave my own head. I ended up with a big hole in the middle of my head because the protector from the razor just came off, and left a big hole in the middle of my head. 

So, I had to allow that to grow in. And as I was allowing that to grow in, I had to keep shaving my head to match the space that was less hair. 

After that I never went back to colour my hair. And you know, the compliments I got from my hair being short and sprinkled with grey. People would ask me if I coloured my hair this way, and I would tell them, no, this is my natural hair. And most people don't believe that it is my natural hair. 

Helen: Did you have your hair short before you went grey?

Dain: No, no.Occasionally. I've always cut my hair, even as a teenager. It was easier to work with, when my hair is short. But I would eventually grow it out. And then I say, I will keep my hair long. Then in a few months, I would just shave my hair. 

I like my hair short. It is too much work to take care of African American hair. It's just too much work. It's humidity you have to deal with. You have to deal with a frizz. And then came the movement of this natural hair. And then these tons of products to keep your hair looking a certain way. As your hair is longer, it's just too much. 

There's this thing that is in black people culture. I want to say African American, because I'm not African American, but in black culture. We want our hair to look straight, we would, either blow dry it, flat iron it, put texturizer, relaxer. 

And when you do that, you always have to constantly keep running from the rain, you don't go to the beach. You don't swim because you don't want to mess up your hairstyle. So those are all things that we go through. 

I just think it's just too much after a while. I don't want to be involved in it, and it's expensive. It costs too much money and it costs too much time. It's like once I decided to stop colouring my hair or relaxing my hair to me, I've taken back time, and I've saved resources, and it makes me so much happy.

I cannot believe I would spend four to six hours a month sometimes. Going to a hairdresser waiting for my hair to be done, in a salon. I can't believe I ever did that and would never, ever do that again. 

Helen: I'm with you there. You just gotta go, how much time and how much money did I spend over the years?

Dain: Yes, a lot. Now I use minimal products in my hair. I would put styling products to give it a little shine, sometimes a little curl or a little slick back. But I went to the point now where I want it so minimal. As soon as I would get home from whatever event or going to work, I just wash it all out.

I don't want that heavy product in my hair. It just damages my scalp, and it, flakes on your clothes, on your pillow. So, as minimal products as possible I use in my hair right now, and it is such a relief. 

Helen: Do you use any of the purple products to stop it yellowing at all? 

Dain: I do have some of the shampoo with the purple. Yes, I do have that. But I don't use it quite often, like every now and then. To me, I don't know if it makes a big difference, to be honest. I can't say with certainty if it does any better to my hair. 

Helen: I don't use one at all. I think if you've got very white hair, then you probably would notice the yellowing more.

Dain: Yes. 

Helen: You and I are both quite salt and peppery. 

Dain: Yes. 

Helen: So, it's probably less noticeable. 

Dain: I do tend to use like a serum. Or a gel. And maybe some oil. That's it, in my hair. 

Helen: But you're much happier since it's gone grey? 

Dain: Absolutely. Absolutely. Not only am I happier for my grey hair, I was scouted, to become a model.

I live in a little village of Dobbs Ferry. And I was asked if I wanted to take a picture for Silvery Magazine. I said yes. And after a few weeks or months of not able to connect with the person who wanted me to do the magazine. I finally did connect with her. Her name is Ilise Harris. I think you had her on your podcast.

Helen: I did.

Dain: And she has the documentary “Your Roots Are Showing”. She was the one who introduced me to the Silvering magazine and we had a whole photo spread. And from that day, my life has changed to the point where I have signed as a model. 

The first thing when I went to the agency, they asked if it was my own hair and I said, yes. And they said, we will sign you for your own hair and do not colour it. So actually, in my contract, not the colour of my hair. 

Helen: I think it's really good that some people are choosing to use grey models in their campaigns. 

Dain: Yes.

 Helen: Just because it's the way women really are.

Dain: Yes. And it doesn't diminish from who I am as a person. It more than validate who I am. I can be a role model to someone else. 

Many beauty campaigns, when I go on photo shoots or go to, get a job, there's always, mature models that we're called. It is now a thing. A movement. Where people just want to see grey hair. 

There are friends of mine who still can't stand the fact that their hair is turning grey, and they do everything to still colour it. But each of his own, everybody gets there at a different time.

For me, I have arrived, and there's no turning back. 

Helen: I was going to ask you that actually. How did your friends and family react when you said you were going to go grey? 

Dain: I didn't tell them I was going grey. I just had my hair and they all said, oh my gosh, you look so nice. Your hair looks so, so beautiful.

One of my best friends, she says, the thing I am running from is the thing that you are doing, and have actually made you a model.

Helen: Another thing I was going to ask you was about the colours that you wear. Have they changed at all since you went grey? 

Dain: Oh, absolutely not. I am a person who loves clothing. And I love colour. I love bright colours. I mix and match my colours. I have not changed a single thing with my hair colour. And I am not, afraid, to wear colour or wear print. No, I'm bold. 

I have this innate ability to match clothing well. This is the one thing I know, clothing and shoes. 

I wear very minimal makeup. I'm not a big makeup person. I think it takes so much time. Also, that's another point, I actually want to take a class on how-to put on makeup properly. They all take so much time. 

I'd rather spend my money on going to a dermatologist, getting a facial, and using products to take care of my skin than having to pay for makeup.

Helen:  Again, I'm with you there. I never really got into it. I think you either get into it in your teens or you don't. 

Dain: Yes, I was never very good at putting on makeup or mascara. My sister always said to me, not putting on mascara is like walking naked. I'm like, I don't agree.

As you get older and women, we go through menopause and we have hot flushes and night sweats. When you have on makeup and you having a hot flush, it just runs and streaks and looks horrible. So, it's just better not to wear too much , or wear none at all, if possible.

Helen:  Yeah, I very rarely wear it, but I do put stuff on to look after my skin. 

Dain: Yes, that I definitely do. I do the vitamin C. Hyaluronic acid. I would go get a facial. I try to make sure I use products to stop a breakout of acne or, rashes or things like that. That I definitely believe in. And having a good dermatologist that you can consult, and give you advice. 

Helen:  Are you doing anything to stay fit and healthy as you age? 

Dain: Oh, yes. I am one of those people who love, health, and fitness, and exercise. I love walking. I love running. I like hiking. I like going to the gym, especially if I can box. I love boxing. I think it's the most sexy thing any woman can do. It makes you feel so powerful. You feel strong. You just feel good.

I like exercising. The one time I like to sweat, is when I'm exercising. I enjoy every piece of sweat that comes on my body. It cleans your body. It cleans your pores. It just get rid of toxin. So, I love exercising.

I love to eat well. I'm a vegetarian. I have been a vegetarian for many years. I don't eat any meat products. Sometimes I eat eggs, cheese or milk, but not in abundance. I mostly eat, vegetables, and beans, and salad. 

I eat bread. People are afraid of bread. I love bread. I don't have a problem with bread. I believe your carbs are good for you. I just don't overdo in anything. I eat in moderation, and I eat in small portions. 

Helen: Have you found any changes since the menopause, in terms of weight, and fitness? 

Dain: In terms of weight, not so much. 

It takes you more effort to actually want to do it. You get a little lazy. You don't want to get out of bed. I would be up like 4 every morning and by 4:30, 5 o'clock, I would be like pounding the pave. Run three miles before I go to work. I don't do that so much anymore.

I walk more now. I do still run, but it's not as consistent as when I was much younger. Because I want to make sure I don't damage my knees, or damage my ankle, or my feet. And especially now and modelling. I know my foot is my action. My feet are my asset.

So, I have to watch how I run, and the way my foot falls, because I tend to run on, pathways that are not very smooth. I have to be careful where my foot falls. 

Yesterday I was going for a walk, and there's this place we have called the Croton Aqueduct, and it was so slippery with ice that I had to turn back. I'm like, I don't want to fall at my age. I don't want to break a hip. Things like that, I'm very careful with. 

I do a bone density test to see that I'm not losing bone. As you get older, things change, you see changes in your body, and you try to mitigate it as much as possible. And when you can't, you just have to embrace it. That's my philosophy. 

Helen: Similar thing that I've run since my teens. But I can only really run twice a week now because if I run any more than that, then I tend to get injured, just get overuse injuries of various types. 

But I do yoga, and go to the gym, and do strength training, and that's all fine.

Dain: That's good. Strength training is good for the bones and to keep your body, you know, to keep the muscles. 

Helen: I want to be able to deadlift my body weight. 

Dain: When I had a personal trainer, I used to do lot of weights because he was there to, guide me. But now that I don't have a personal trainer. I just make sure I use just the right amount of weight at home. So, I don't damage myself. 

I remember two years ago, sometimes you forget that you're getting older and I went canoeing and I was just rowing, rowing, rowing. And when I came back my shoulder. I don't know what it pull a muscle. It took a few months of therapy to be able to lift my arm, and get it back in shape.

We've got to be careful as we age, because things don't work as they used to. And sometimes think we are still 15, or 16, or 20, and we're not. You got to slow down, admit where you are, and work with what you have. 

Helen: Agreed. I'm going to ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice would you have for them? 

Dain: I will tell them, just go for it. If they want to go for it slowly, I would also suggest that. But to me, the best thing to do is to just make the radical change. To me, when the process is drawn out, it is more painful and you tend to revert to your old self.

So go for it. Embrace it. Find hairstyles that work with your hair type. So, you build confidence. That would be my advice to if someone wants to go grey. Ditch the dye. 

Helen: I'm going to say, for me, it was just the best decision ever because you spend so many years, you don't even think about it.

You've got low grade stress all the time around the roots. 

Dain: Yes. 

Helen: And once you decide that you're not dyeing anymore. It depends how you do the grow out. Sometimes the grow out can be quite drawn out. It took me about 18 months.

During that time, it was quite annoying. Not great from the point of view, you'd look in the mirror and think, oh God, what a mess. But once it's grown out, it just makes life so much easier.

Dain: Yes. So much easier. There was this thing I used to say, but I got this phrase from a friend.

One day she told me she's going to turn back time. I'm like what are you talking about? And then she says, I want to go dye my hair tonight. You can't turn back time. Sorry. But you know, that was her thing. 

I adopted that for a few years. And then I'm like, nah, you're not turning back time. Just work at what you have, you know? I'm so much happier, so much happier.

Helen: It's amazing the number of people I speak to and they're just kind of like, I've got so much more freedom. I just feel happier in myself. It's cool. 

Dain: It is. 

Helen: Right. Well, I'm going to say thank you very much for joining me. 

Dain: Oh, thank you for having me.

Helen: Enjoy the rest of your day. 

Dain: Oh, thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.