Happier Grey with Lisa Picken

Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Lisa Picken, a registered nutritional therapist and health coach, empowering midlife women to feel fabulous through menopause and beyond. She ditched the dye and embraced her natural grey, and now helps women regain their confidence, energy and vitality, inside and out. Hello Lisa, how are you?

Lisa: Hello, thank you for having me. I'm really good, thank you.

Helen: Cool. I'm gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Lisa: Oh yes, it was back when I was in my late 20s, early 30s. I went grey early.

Helen: How did you feel when you found that first grey?

Lisa: Mortified, absolutely mortified. First thing I did was cover it up with dye.

Helen: Most people seem to pluck them out to start with. But yeah, you went straight for dyeing. What colour was your hair before you went grey?

Lisa: It's naturally very dark, almost black. 

Helen: Okay.

Lisa: So, when it came through grey or white, it was very obvious. 

Helen: Did you dye it your natural colour?

Lisa: Yes, it was just really to cover the roots and dyeing it the same colour. And I did that for years and years and years.

Helen: And did you dye it yourself or did you used to go to the hairdressers? 

Lisa: I dyed it myself, because I have very fast-growing hair. Within two weeks you can see the grey roots coming through really dramatically, so I was box dyeing it the same colour.

Helen: Every two weeks?

Lisa: Every two weeks, and I did that for about 20 years.

Helen: So, what was the catalyst for you deciding to stop dyeing it?

Lisa: It was because my life revolved around dyeing my hair. So, if I had a social event, it was like, quick, how can I fit in dyeing my hair before I go to the social event. 

And it was just ridiculous. As I say, because my hair grows so quickly, it was so obvious when the grey came through, and I just couldn't bear it.

What happened was, I didn't go from the dark hair to being grey. What I did is I went back to the hairdressers, and slowly lightened it to mid brown, and started putting some highlights in there, to eventually get to blonde, to make it less obvious for the root growth coming through. And I did that for probably about 10 years.

Then it got to a point, and this was June 2020, I think it was, so it was in lockdown, and I was still doing my own dye that I was doing myself, and I just thought this is ridiculous. I'm losing hours of my life every other weekend to dye my hair. 

And I thought, why am I doing this? Why am I putting these chemicals on my hair? So, I just thought, no, that's it. I've had enough. And when I told my hairdresser what I was about to do, she went, oh, you can't do that. You're so paranoid about your grey hair, you'll never. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I just have to embrace it, and do it. 

So, I stopped dyeing it and it was the best decision I ever made. And the healthiest as well, because I wasn't putting chemicals on my head so often. 

Helen: Yep. So, at that point, you had it dyed blonde?

Lisa: Yes. Yeah, there’s a few people who’ve said, after the event, that was never your best look. But nobody said it at the time. But it was just to make the growth less obvious because, as I say, I would get like an inch of hair growth in two weeks.

Helen: Yeah.

Lisa: So, it was really obvious all of the time. So, I was hoping that it was going to blend in a little bit longer. But yeah, I just couldn't abide the grey hair coming through, and it just got that point where I thought I can't do this anymore.

It's costing me a fortune even in the box dyes. It's taking a couple of hours every weekend to do that. And I thought, why am I doing this?  

Helen: Did you have a big contrast between the blonde and the white when it came through?

Lisa: Yes, I still did. Yes. I let it grow. So, my hair was about this length, and I let it grow. Every day I was looking in the mirror, pulling it apart and seeing what the growth was looking like. I'm thinking, hurry up, grow in. Cause I didn't like the two-tone colouring. 

Helen: Okay.

Lisa: I got to it being about an inch and a half, two inches long. 

Helen: Yeah.

Lisa: And I thought, I really dislike this two-tone. I really dislike it. It was back when you could get back to the hairdressers after COVID. So, I went in and I said, pixie cut, please. And she went, what? And I went, yeah, I want the blonde off. I just don't like the two-tone. 

I'm either one colour or the other colour, and I'm gonna be grey. I'm gonna let my silver come through. Pixie cut it. And I have had a pixie cut years and years ago when I was much younger, so I knew I could sport a pixie cut.

Helen: Uh-huh.

Lisa: Well, she whopped it all off. And I got home that day, and I just thought goodness for that. I just felt like I was me again, because it was my real hair, and was quite transformative actually, yeah.

Helen: Okay, some people go pixie. I think it depends how brave you feel, and how long your hair is already because your hair's not mega long. You look like you've got kind of almost like a layered bob about ear length, is that?

Lisa: Yes, but I have had it really long in the past, and I gradually got shorter and shorter. But yes, I know I'd had a pixie cut several times in my younger years. So, I knew I could pull off a pixie cut, but it was also when we were all working from home as well. So ,I wasn't socializing as much anyway.

When my hair goes through a pixie cut, it goes straight. And as it gets longer, the curls start to develop.

Helen: Yeah.

Lisa: So, it took a while for the curls to come back in. And the curls came back in in a different way because it wasn't being dyed and dried out. My hair was in a much, much better condition. My hairdresser commented on that, yes.

Helen: Okay, and your hair is fairly white. 

Lisa: I've got sort of white at the front and then at the back it’s darker.

Helen: Oh yeah, that's similar to mine. Although mine's very stripey today. It's in a plait, and you can see one of the strands is white and the other two aren't. 

Do you do anything with special shampoos and conditioners to keep your hair in good condition?

Lisa: I use bars of soap in the purple. So, it's the natural bars of soap in purple. I can't remember the make. 

But I also use the curly girl method. So, I only wash my hair occasionally, and it's predominantly conditioned with the purple conditioner. Because the curly girl method is that you don't strip the oils from the hair, to allow the curls to clump together and keep the moisture in them. Because if you wash all the time, then you strip the moisture out of the curls.

Helen: How often would you say you washed your hair?

Lisa: Well, I wash my hair, wash or condition my hair sort of twice a week.

Helen: Okay.

Lisa: It really just depends on the build-up of the curl products that I'm washing off. So, it's not frequently cause I like the moisture in the oils from my skin and scalp to go on onto the hair.

Helen: And you've already said your hair is in much better condition now than it was when you were dyeing it.

Lisa: Oh completely, yes, yes.

Helen: Yeah. Mine's the same. Mine was bleached blonde and it was just very, very dry and a little bit brittle.

Lisa: Yeah.

 Helen: So easily gets split ends. 

Lisa: Yeah, well that's putting all the chemicals on. 

Helen: How did your friends and family react when you told them you were going to go grey?

Lisa: Funnily enough when I said to husband, he said, I told you to do this years ago. And I said, but years ago I wasn’t ready to be completely grey. Because I had that association that everybody else does, that grey hair equals being old.

And he was saying this in my 30s. He says I don’t care just stop dyeing it. And I went no, I can’t do that. Can’t do that. So, he was all up for it. He says thank goodness for that. 

I remember popping round to tell my Mam. That, cause the growth was coming through and I said oh, I’m not going to dye it. I’m going to let the grey come through. And she went, you won’t like it. It’ll not be nice. And I went, what do you mean?

She says, I don't like mine. I still dye mine. Now her hair is very similar colour to mine now, but she box dyes hers. And she said, Oh. And I thought, what? And she says, I didn't like the colour of my grey. So, I still dyed it a different colour grey. 

I went, no, that defeats the object of what I'm trying to achieve here. I don't want any chemicals on my hair. It's getting absorbed into the scalp and the training that I've done being a nutritionist, I knew how bad it was for you.

So, she said, oh you’ll be dyeing it again shortly. And I went, no I won’t. And I love the grey that’s come through.

And the amount of people who stop me, strangers. Getting on an aeroplane, the air hostess stopped me and she says, your hair is fabulous. I love the colour. I love the curls. I love the cut. 

There's somebody I go to a networking meeting, she says, you've got the best hair I've ever seen ever. Then there was somebody at the weekend said, Oh, your hair's so fabulous.  

 I'll get stopped all of the time about the colour and they say, is it natural? And I go, yeah. And I went, oh my goodness. And my hairdresser says she has people coming in, paying a fortune to look like my natural colour hair.

Helen: And I'm going to guess you didn't have that when you used to dye it.

Lisa: No, I didn't get any attention.

Helen: How have your friends reacted?

Lisa: They love it. I mean, my sister-in-law, I don't see her very often, cause she doesn't live close. And she said, that's the best haircut and hair colour you've ever had. She says, it really suits you. And I went, well, that's because it's my natural colour. 

It was an event, a charity event last night, and I met Sarah Davies, who did Dragon’s Den.

Helen: Yeah.

Lisa: And I got a selfie with her. I stood next to her, and she turned and looked, and took a second look at my hair. She went, oh, wow. And then snuggled in for a selfie. So, she approved the hair as well.

Helen: Cool. I'm going to ask a slightly different question now. In terms of ageing, and how you feel about where you're at in the ageing process, and what you're doing to age well?

Lisa: So, there are days that I think, ooh, do I feel a bit older with my grey hair? But that's probably when I've got a low mood. So, I'm in that sort of low mood day anyway, and probably wouldn't matter what I did or what I wore. 

But I think I'm ageing pretty well. As a nutritionist, I eat really cleanly. I eat plant based, so I eat vegan food, but I don't eat processed food. I've slowed down the ageing with that. 

So I feel like, I'm ageing quite well. You may beg to differ, but I'm quite happy with where I'm at. I don't feel old. I just feel me.

Helen: Have you got any tips for people around things they should and shouldn't eat if they want to age healthily?

Lisa: Yes, yes, sugar. Sugar is an age accelerator. It accelerates your wrinkles, and it causes inflammation in the body, and when you've got inflammation you start getting sore joints, you get migraines, you get poor skin health. It just exasperates every condition in the body so stay away from sugar.

Most people are going to hate me for this one, stay away from alcohol. At this age, we tend to reach for alcohol to do the calming, soothing effect and de-stress with, and it does exactly the opposite, and affects your sleep. 

Sleep is another big one to stay young and keep your health and keep healthy is good night's sleep. Get seven to eight hours sleep, in good quality sleep, because if any of those are in your life then they're going to age you faster than you want to be going.

Helen: Yeah. So, things you should be eating though, any of those?

Lisa: So, the things that you should be eating is the rainbow. When you have a plate of food in your meal, is the colour on there, or is it beige? If it's beige, it's processed, and it's not giving you any nutrients. The rainbow foods give you the nutrients to nourish your skin and nourish yourselves down at cellular level, which is what stops you from ageing.

Helen: And how about supplements and collagen? Should we be doing any of those things?

Lisa: If you're eating really well, then you don't need supplements, I would say. The soil that the food has grown in now is more depleted than it's ever been. So, there are times where you may need a little boost from something. 

It would be working with me. As a one to one, then I would do a deep dive then to see what is going on. That way I could really target those supplements specific to your body's needs. 

Generally, I would say possibly vitamin C, possibly vitamin D. Collagen, you need to be cautious with collagen, because there's so many on the market, and there's so many on the market that don't do what they claim to do.

You've got to look at the source and how well those animals have been fed and looked after. for it to then produce the collagen. And there's different levels of collagen that do different things in the body. So, you just be cautious about things that you're looking at, but you don't necessarily need collagen.

Although at this age, your collagen is declining, but if you're eating really well, then you shouldn't have a problem with it.

Helen: Okay, it is one that I get tempted with from time to time, because I don't have supplements. The only time I ever take a supplement is if I think I'm about to get ill, I've got some immunity vitamins with a load of vitamin D in, and I'll take those. 

But I've read so much about collagen and I keep thinking, should I? Shouldn't I? It's not happened yet.

Lisa: Like most things, a lot of it is gimmicky. It's all about marketing ploys, that they're targeting you, for you to think that you actually need those to survive and to get through. And a lot of the time you don't, if you're eating really well and really limiting your processed foods, then you really shouldn't need them unless you've got something specific going on for yourself. 

Helen: Okay. I've got a very different tack now. Has your style changed since you've gone grey in terms of the colours that you wear? And the way you dress?

Lisa: My style and the way I dress hasn't changed, but the colours definitely have. 

Before I would be into beiges, and reds, and oranges, that kind of colours. I would never wear blue before, whereas now I wear blues. I love the colour teal, that's my favourite colour, I love that. I wear pinks now that I never did.

But I never wear reds or oranges or beiges or golds. It's all sort of silvery, dark blues. I never used to wear navy. I wear navy now. So yes, it's definitely changed.

Helen: Is that just because the colours you used to wear make you look washed out now?

Lisa: Yes, because of the colour of the grey hair, yeah. The colours that I choose now compliment the hair colouring that I've got. 

Whereas prior, when I had dark hair and even the blonde hair, those colours complimented my hair. So no, I've got a glow, rather than a washed out look.

Helen: And what about makeup? Has your makeup changed since you've gone grey?

Lisa: Yes. So, my eyeshadow colours have changed, cause they were all predominantly sort of, browns, and taupes, and things. Now they're pinks and greys, and very muted taupe, where it's not very obvious. It's just sort of light for shading. 

And again, my lipsticks, if I was going out to a posh event, I might have put a red lipstick on. Now it's a bright pink. I love bright pink lipsticks, or pale pinks for sort of every day, where they would be orange based in the past. So yeah, definitely changed.

Helen: Presumably they match your skin tone better than the old ones used to?

Lisa: Yes, yes. I'm hoping so. Otherwise, I’ve got it all wrong.

Helen: Okay, one other thing I was going to ask you about is being active as you age. Do you do anything physical to help you age well, like walking or?

Lisa: Yes. I mean, I'm a big advocate of movement. Your body needs movement. I've got two big dogs that need daily walks twice a day. So, I'm out sort of an hour and a half, two hours every day, walking the dogs. And we do a fast-paced walk. It's not a gentle stroll. It's a meaningful walk, to get the heart rate up.

I have a mini trampoline in the house, like a rebounder. That's brilliant for cellular health, because it massages the cells at cellular level, so that's brilliant for that. And I do, sort of, little weights, and workouts at home as well.

Helen: Okay. The trampoline sounds like a lot of fun, I have to say.

Lisa: It doesn't feel like exercise, but it doesn't even have to be long. I do it in between clients, running on there and jumping for five minutes or even two minutes sort of regularly throughout the day. And that's great for your body. Yeah.

Helen: Okay, so one last question then, if somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, would you have any advice and tips for them?

Lisa: I would say go for it. Embrace it. Your scalp health will love you. Your body will love you because you're not putting those chemicals into your body as well. So, your body will feel much healthier, 

But it's liberating apart from anything else being free, not being tied to. Dyes and having to dye your hair to go to an event, anything like that. Best thing ever did stop dyeing my hair, honestly.

Helen: No, I'm with you there. I went a slightly different route for the grow out. I didn't go for the pixie cut. I had the line for about 18 months, and then went for a layered bob, just because I don't like really short hair.

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, it's each to their own. It's whatever you're comfortable doing with. I just was in a hurry to be all grey. So, that's why I went for the pixie cut, and I knew I could manage a pixie cut. 

But I've seen other women grow it out slowly and it looks fabulous on them. So, it's whatever way suits you. How good do you feel about it?

Helen: Yeah, it's going to test your patience either way.

Lisa: It is, it is. Because I've gone from wanting my hair to slow down with growth, because it was showing the roots too much. To then suddenly wanting the grey to come through, and I was in a hurry for it to be all grey and done and dusted. 

Helen: Okay. Well, I'm going to call it a day there. Thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you.

Lisa: Oh, it's been lovely having this chat. Thank you. I hope it's helped some women.

Helen: Cool. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.