Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Aoife Forbes, a professional gift wrapper based in Whitley Bay, who covers workshops, corporate gifts, and private wrapping. She launched her service last year after 25 years in the PR industry. Good morning, Aoife.

Aoife: Hi, how are you?

Helen: I'm good. Thank you. I'm just back from the gym.

Aoife: Lovely. Good for you. I'm enjoying the sunshine, that's for sure.

Helen: It's lovely, isn't it? We have to appreciate it when we can here in the North East of England, 'cause it's not always like this.

I am gonna start by asking you, what was your hair like when you were a child?

Aoife: Really, really dark brown. Very thick. Quite shiny. I've always loved my hair. It's been one thing that always kind of works, when everything else kind of goes to put my hair is normally okay. But, yeah, really dark brown and very thick.

Helen: And was it long?

Aoife: No, not really. Kind of shoulder length has been the longest it's been really. I've never had it very, very long. I had it quite short after a Levi's Ad in the nineties. 

Helen: I had my hair very short in the eighties. But not anymore. The next thing I was gonna ask you is, did you dye it when you were in your teens?

Aoife: Not when I was in my teens, no. The first time I remember dyeing, it was for my 21st birthday party. 'cause I've had, you know, quite a few greys then, That's quite young, I think to have grey hair. When you're in your twenties, you don't want grey hair. Certainly not back in the nineties and, two-thousands. That's the first time I remember colouring it. 

I think I started getting grey hair when I was in school. I can remember the odd grey hair in school, 'cause I had such dark brown hair. It really stood out as well. It was really noticeable.

Helen: So, in your teens then?

Aoife: Yeah.

Helen: Similar to me, my Mum found my first one when I was 18. How did you feel about the grey hairs, when you were younger?

Aoife: I wasn't very happy to be honest. I really liked my hair brown. Both my parents went grey really young, so I kind of thought it was gonna be inevitable. But I wasn't too happy about it, I think, 'cause I was so young when I started going grey. When you are in university, you know, you are young. Now it's kind of cool, but then it was not at all.

So, I wasn't too happy about it at the beginning. 

Helen: Did you dye it yourself or did you go to the hairdressers?

Aoife: I think I went to the hairdressers at the beginning, 'cause I had no clue what I was doing. Maybe from my 21st, as I say. But then I started doing it myself when I realized how expensive it was. So, I did it myself, I didn't enjoy it, but I like the result.

Helen: See, I've never done it myself, but I've heard it's very messy.

Aoife: Yeah, it looks really easy on the Ads. But it's a pain in the neck when you're actually doing it. And because my roots started going so white, I think I have white hair rather than grey. The roots were just ridiculous. 

It was like a stripe, you know, within a couple of days. So, it was getting unmanageable.

Helen: How long did you dye it for?

Aoife: Years, maybe 15, 20 years. Yeah. Yeah, a long time.

Helen: And how often were you dyeing It?

Aoife: I tried to eek it out as much as I could. Probably every six, eight weeks, I suppose. I’d try and put it off as long as I could. 

And then they started bringing out those things where you can kind of brush in your roots and your parting. I used that a bit. I had a fringe for a while that helped kind of disguise my roots. But yeah, it was high maintenance.

Helen: Yeah. And what was the trigger for deciding to grow out the colour?

Aoife: It was a mixture of lots of things, to be honest. I was so sick of dyeing it. I was really conscious of the chemicals on my head all the time. The roots were just kind of laughable. They were kind of funny how quickly I would see white hair afterwards. It was almost like leaving hairdressers. They just go ping.

I thought about for a really long time though, and I debated it for ages. I think I drove my sister nuts talking about it. I really did think about it very carefully. But then I was in the hairdressers getting my hair cut brown. And then I was looking at these girls in their twenties getting their hair dyed grey. 'cause that was kind of trendy for a while there. 

And I thought, this is ridiculous. What am I doing? I got sick of thinking about, I thought, right, I'm just gonna do it. I could see from my roots, the kind of colour I would have and I liked it. And thought, well, I'm just gonna go for it.

So, I went to my hairdressers and we talked about, and they were lovely. They were amazing. I went from one to the other. So I went from brown, they kind of stripped my hair colour. Luckily, I've got pretty strong hair. It could take it. But it took eight hours. I was there for eight hours.

They stripped all the colour out, which took lots of times. And then they did a kind of a dark ashy kind of blondie colour. 

Helen: Okay.

Aoife: Which I didn't really like, but I knew what the end result was gonna be. And then Covid happened. So, within weeks I was at home anyway, so no one saw it. I let my daughter die pink at the ends, 'cause I knew I'd be growing it out. That was really good fun. 

I just felt really liberated. Really liberated. So happy I'd done it. 'cause there's no going back for me when you've got hair like mine, there's no going back to brown now. Even though my niece, my nephews, and my son call me, Granny and tease me about it.

My son wants me to go back to brown, but there's no way I will that ship has sailed.

Helen: How long did it take you to do the grow out, would you say?

Aoife: Ooh, I don't know. And 'cause it was lockdown, there weren't many milestones, do you know what I mean? 

Helen: Yeah.

Aoife: We were just at home, so probably a good few months, but I cut it regularly and I kept it quite short, well, a short bob. So probably eight, nine months, I'd say.But it's all gone now.

Helen: And even though you didn't like the colour during the process, you had the end goal in sight the whole time?

Aoife: I'm definitely a brunette at heart, and I didn't feel like me being blonde. But I feel me now being white, if that makes any sense. I dunno if it does. But there was an end goal, so it was okay. Because I was at home, so yeah.

Helen: Your hair is very white,

Aoife: Yeah.

Helen:  so, do you do anything in particular to keep it in good condition with shampoos and conditioners?

Aoife: Not really. I'm really low maintenance. I'm lucky that I've got good hair. It gets a bit yellow sometimes. So, I put a purple spray in it after I've washed it sometimes, when it's still wet. And then I just dry it, and it takes away that kind of yellowy ginger gets sometimes.

Annoyingly just here. I dunno why it goes just there over around my face. But that's where it goes a bit yellowy. So, I just put the spray in and that's it. It's really low maintenance. It's so nice to know I'm not gonna have to dye it again.

Helen: How often do you put that spray in, would you say?

Aoife: I think every time I wash it now, 'cause I'm just used to it now, but it takes seconds. For me, that's as high maintenance as it gets. So, yeah. So that's, that's that.

Helen: And how often are you washing your hair?

Aoife: Probably every two to three days.

Helen: Is that the same as before, when you dyed it?

Aoife: Yeah, it is. I can get a bit longer out of it now, 'cause if it hasn't been washed, I can tie it up and it looks okay. Whereas when I had brown hair, it definitely not, you know, you could tell I haven't washed it, I felt anyway. I feel I can get a few more days out of it now.

But I do wear it up quite a lot because my hair's quite thick, so I get a bit hot and flustered and bothered.

Helen: Yeah.

 Aoife: Especially if I'm doing my new job. Just kind of doing something practical. 

Helen: You've talked a little bit about the reaction of your son. How did your other friends and family react when you decided to go grey?

Aoife: One friend wasn't too pushed, but I think she's come round now. I think, yeah, everyone's been really, nice about it. I suppose it gives me another kind of, difference from everybody else. I mean, I'm Irish in Newcastle anyway, so I kind of feel I'm a d bit different. 

But now I'm the Irish girl, white hair who does a gift wrapping in Newcastle. So, I'm quite niche now, which is quite good for PR, I guess. But yeah, the reaction's been really good actually. People really talk about it and, you know, comment on it, which I quite like. Everyone seems to like it.

Helen: In a positive way, obviously?

Aoife: Yeah. 

Helen: Have you changed your style, and the colours that you wear, since your hair has gone from brunette to white?

Aoife: Yeah. I think I definitely have actually. I definitely wear more colours now. I used to wear black a lot. And I feel now, if I wear black, I feel a bit like a pint of Guinness. I can't stop thinking that. 

So, I wear colours a lot, which I liked before, but now I really go for it. I've really embraced it. I dunno what the difference is. I think I feel more confident now. I've no colour hair, so I need to have colour somewhere. I dunno what it is, but I really enjoy wearing colours now, a lot more than I used to.

Helen: So, bright colours?

Aoife: Yeah. Bright colours. I like Neons even. Yeah, coral and loads of bright colours. 

Helen: What about pastels? Do you wear them?

Aoife: Not really, 'cause I've got grey, Irish skin. So, if I have a tan, yes. But not normally. I prefer white or a colour. I can't really wear neutrals. They don't really suit me very well I don't think anyway. I wear leopard print a lot. I still wear that. I'm always gonna wear that, I guess. 

Helen: So not planning to fade into the background then?

Aoife: No, no, no, no. Definitely not, no.

Helen: And what about your makeup? Has that changed as well?

Aoife: Not really. I think I wear less makeup. The older I'm getting, the more confident and happier I am. Just bit of Mascara maybe going around where I live. I don't tend to wear lots of makeup every day. I do like wearing makeup for work things or, nights out. But I think I pretty much still wear the same kind of thing I did in the nineties. 

I used to wear a lot of colourful eyeshadow actually, in the nineties. I think it was a Coors, throwback. I dunno. I don't wear it colourful eyeshadow anymore. I keep that toned down now. That was just a Phase, I think. But, no, but apart from that, pretty much the same.

Helen: And what about lipsticks? Do you wear bright coloured lipsticks.

Aoife: No, never. I never wear lipstick. I don't like my teeth. Well, I don't like the colour of my teeth, so I avoid colours on my lips. But I wear loads of eyeshadow. Lots of eye makeup.

Helen: What are you doing, if anything, to age healthily?

Aoife: Oh, wow. That's a good question. I think I'm worrying about things less. I think I feel certainly less stressed. I'm happier to go, no, I'm not gonna do that. I don't want to go out, or I don't want to go to that thing. And I'm happy just to say, no, I've done too much this week. I'm gonna stay home, or I'm just gonna sit that one out. 

So, I think I'm better at looking after my own energy resources, and you know what I want to do. Whereas before I used to say yes to everything or feel guilty if I didn't go to something. So, I feel a lot calmer that way. 

I think working for myself, it could bring on stresses certainly, I feel quite empowered by it. And I like the way I can have my own working patterns and work when it suits me. So I'm quite night owl as well, so I’ll work in the night rather than first thing in the morning. 

Healthwise, I probably do drink less than I used to. I don't think I can take it anymore, I'm too old now. But I definitely like a couple of drinks. That's probably my downfall, if I have a weakness. I'm definitely starting to look after myself better mental health wise, I think.

Helen: Yeah. What about physical health? 'cause obviously you're in Whitley Bay, so you are just by the sea.

Aoife: Yeah, I walk everywhere really. We don't drive very often. So yeah, I walk a lot, which I love. I love swimming as well, so when the weather picks up a bit, I'm a fair-weather swimmer. I don't get out in January, but when the weather is a bit warmer, I'll start swimming in the sea again. And I really like that. But walking is my main thing.

Helen: Very brave swimming in the North Sea, 'cause it's never very warm.

Aoife: It's never warm, but it's definitely warmer in June, and there's new saunas on the beach. 

Helen: Yeah.

Aoife: I'm really dying to try that. You go for a sauna first, and then you go into the sea. They're really popular in Ireland, but they're coming into the North East now, which is brilliant. So, I'm dying to try that soon.

Helen: Yeah, one of my friends has been. She likes swimming in cold water, and she's always trying to say to me, do you wanna go? And I'm like, no, no, no.

Aoife: Once you do. Once you do there’s no going back.

Helen: I'm a runner, and I've never really liked swimming. I'll swim if I'm too injured to do any other form of exercise.

Aoife: If it's the last thing possible, basically.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah. So really not tempted

Aoife: I wouldn't say I swim though. I think it's more getting in the watering and paddling around a bit. I wouldn't say I'm a very strong swimmer, but I just like being in the water very much. I like the feeling afterwards. 

Helen: Yeah.

Aoife: You feel amazing afterwards.

Helen: Still not tempted, don't like the idea of the cold. So why did you decide to work for yourself?

Aoife: Wow. Another good question. Well, I've always had a kind of a secret ambition to. I tried a couple of things before, and they didn't work out. But then again, I loved working in teams and I loved collaboration. I loved working with people. So, I suppose that's what kept me in the, employed environment.

It was a mixture really, a mixture of lots of different things. I wanted to be able to have my own flexible hours, be at home more, work when it suited me. And I really wanted to do something creative. Which I've always had that kind of, desire to do, I really wanted to just go for it and give it a try.

So, I took it some time out from work. I was lucky to be able to take a few months and just think about what I wanted to do next. Just knew I wanted to do something creative with my hands. I just had this thing about with my hands. So, I was gonna be a joiner for about half an hour. And then I was gonna be an interior designer for a while, 'cause I really like interiors.

Then I went on a gift trapping course just for pleasure, just for myself to do something that I love. I just loved it so much, and I thought, God, imagine that being your job. The more I thought about it, the more I thought, well, maybe.

I researched it and realized there was no one else in the North East who does it. There's a girl in Barnard Castle, but no one else in the North East who does it. And then I thought I could combine being creative with my corporate kind of knowledge, I suppose from, when I worked. So, I'd know how to kinda approach workshops, and team buildings, and networking, and that kind of stuff.

So, it was something I love, combined with a gap in the market, and something I felt I could make a go of. And so far, so good.

Helen: I guess it plays to your love of colour as well?

Aoife: Love of colour, exactly. Love of colour, ribbon, paper, stationery. I've always had a paper obsession. I think I brought ribbon from Ireland to England when I moved here over 20 years ago. I probably still haven't used it. I have all these ribbons for good. 

I've always loved paper, always loved stationery, maps, anything print. Newspapers. I'm definitely old school PR, newspapers kind of girl. I miss the days when you cut the cuttings up and put them in a scrapbook, I like that kind of vibe. 

And I like people, so I've been collaborating with quite a few people already, and doing workshops, and speaking at events, that type of thing. At the moment it's kind of a good mixture of all the things I'm good at and the things I like.

Helen: Which definitely sounds like the right balance.

Aoife: Yeah, so far, so good. Definitely.

Helen: Right. I'm gonna come back to your hair, 'cause I forgot to ask you, how old were you when you chose to go grey?

Aoife: Maybe forty-five or six. But I did think about it for a long time. I'm 47 now. But I think I probably thought about it for about two years before I actually decided to do it. It wasn't a rash decision. It was definitely thought through.

Helen: Similar to me. Did you do any research about it before you actually took the plunge?

Aoife: If Pinterest boards are researched, then yes, I had a huge Pinterest board. I wasn't really on Instagram at the time, which is probably just as well because I would've been obsessed with that too. But I had a lot of Pinterest ideas.

And I looked to people all the time, if I saw somebody in Fennicks sometime with the most gorgeous salt and pepper hair, I just thought, oh, her hair's gorgeous. Could I, could I, oh, I dunno. So, there was lots of thinking.

Helen: I'm curious, what was on your Pinterest board?

Aoife: Just so many pictures of grey, white, styles. Yeah, just lots and lots. And of course, it keeps showing you more and more. That was just perfect, perfect heaven for me. 

I talked to people. Like I say, I drove my sister mad talking about it, I think. But my brother and sister have both gone grey. They've both got salt and peppery kind of hair. I'm the whitest. 

Helen: And what about your friends? Have any of them gone grey?

Aoife: No, I don't think so, actually. No. Maybe they will, they'll come to see the light.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, would you have any advice or tips for them?

Aoife: I would say go for it. But think about it carefully, because if your hair is like mine, it's drastically different. So, my hair now compared to my wedding day, when I see my wedding day photo, it's like, my lovely brown hair. 

I found it so liberating. I've saved a fortune. It's so low maintenance, it's easy-peasy. I feel younger, which is a weird thing to say, having granny hair as my son says. I feel younger because I'm not trying to change my appearance all the time. I'm just the way I am. For some reason I feel younger. I dunno why. 

Helen: So, you’re more comfortable in your own skin?

Aoife: I think so. Definitely. I think being older helps, but I think being my natural colour has really helped me feel much more confident. And so, to do things like starting my own business and doing things, you know, kind of brave things like that.

I think, I'm not saying it's the reason, but it's definitely a factor. That's over the last few years, I've felt more comfortable in my own skin, definitely. And my hair has absolutely been a factor in that.

Helen: Quite a lot of people say that it is kind of like, it is not just about going grey, it's about the whole sort of self-confidence to be able to do it

Aoife: Yeah. And making a decision and doing it and going, wow. Okay. Wow. That was okay. 

Helen: Brilliant. Well, I'm gonna leave it there. So, thanks so much for joining me. It's been lovely chatting to you.

Aoife: You're very welcome. Not a problem.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.