Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today's guest is Jayne Shufflebotham, a fully-fledged chaos coordinator who's evolved through 39 years of supporting businesses of all sizes in varying administrative capacities, and taking on the challenges in technology throughout that time. 

Pretty much like her hair, which was a double whammy of COVID-19 lockdown and the menopause, which reluctantly led to her choosing to go natural, and she's still coming to terms with it.

Good afternoon, Jayne. How are you?

Jayne: Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. I'm well, thank you. The sun's shining, so all is good.

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you about what your hair was like when you were a child?

Jayne: Oh, do you know, there was not much going for me as a child. I was that kid who always had the glasses on with, the patch over them. Mousey hair that my Mum used to cut with a sort of a jagged fringe. Never looked great. It always looked shiny and healthy, but I used to hate it.

The one thing that was quite different was at the back of my head, my Mum used to all call it a Malin streak. So, I'd have this head of mousy brown hair, but at the back of my head I'd always have a streak of about two inches wide of hair that was much lighter in colour. 

So, I'd never really tied my hair up 'cause I was always quite conscious of that as well. I mean it was really obvious to me, but maybe not so to other people. But back in those days, yeah, I really hated my hair. 

That's when I was very, very young. I got bullied to death. You know, because kids were cruel back then. It wasn't trendy to wear glasses. And I got called the usual sort of names that kids do.

Then as I went to high school, I had it all cut off, and actually looked like a boy. So, my hair used to be big. And then when I went to high school, it became small, 'cause I all cut off. 

But by then the glasses I wore were big. If any of you remembers Dennis Taylor, the snooker player with them huge glasses. I had these huge glasses with dropdown sides.

So, I really didn't do myself any favours whatsoever with my hair as a child. And my Mum didn't help with that either.

Helen: Did you keep it short the whole way through your teens?

Jayne: I kept it all the way through my teens. Then it grew. I was at high school sort of in the Eighties. I then started to grow it out, and had the style that most people did where I paid off it permed at the back. So, I'd have like a really tight perm, and then it was blow dried at the front.

Which is bizarre really, because now my hair is naturally curly, but it never was back then. It's funny how the way your hair changes over the years. So yeah, it still remained, mousey Brown. 

And then When I was 30. I got divorced, and my then husband said to me he hated girls with short hair. He hated bleached blonde hair, and he hated tattoos. So, I went and did all three. I had it all cut off again. I had a tattoo and I bleached it blonde.

I've still got a driving license back from those days. Where all you can see on the photograph is my eyes, because my hair was that bleached white, you just couldn't see it in the background. So yeah, so I've transitioned to all of those, but towards the latter of that, I went from going, bleach blonde. 

I was with my second husband, a few years after. I went from bleach blonde, and used to go to hairdresser and have it dyed like a coppery. But the first time I did it, going from bleach blonde to coppery, it came out pink. And it wasn't very trendy back then to have pink hair. 

So yeah, I remember being mortified. I walked out the hairdressers and went straight to Boots, and bought all the box dyes I could find, so I could try and rectify it myself.

Helen: Did you have any grey hairs by that point?

Jayne: Do you know I didn't, my grey hairs only seemed to appear when I was around about 45, getting towards 50. 

From short hair with red, I then grew. So, it was down past my shoulders. And again, having bright red hair standing out for the crowd. And I don’t know if there's a little bit of a rebellion on my part from being that child at school who was really shy and quiet. 

I remember my Mum saying I was that shy, that if someone spoke to me, I'd turn away, like I was ignorant, 'cause I didn't know how to respond. So, I'd gone from being the really shy, quiet child to them being this one who had the most flamboyant ginger, red hair before it even became fashionable.

It was only when I got say mid-forties to fifties, that I found that my visits back to the hairdressers were becoming more frequent to get the roots touched up. You know, like sort of three weeks I think was when I decided that I'm not sure I can do this anymore.

It's from a cost perspective particularly. So yeah, it's probably around 45, 50 when I started noticing the odd grey hair. But nothing to worry about. It was just the root regrowth that was

Helen: Yeah,

Jayne: was the sticking point.

Helen: And you were already colouring it anyway?

Jayne: And the thing with my hair was, I went to various hairdressers over the years, and they couldn't quite believe how vivid my hair would be from one visit to the next. Because obviously in their experience, most people who have coloured red hair, the colour fades out quite quickly. 

You know, so after one or two weeks, it's really quite dull again. But mine was always vibrant. It was like the hair itself was just completely porous, and took all of this colour in, and then was reluctant to let it go. And I was okay with that, apart from the root regrowth obviously.

Helen: So, you were going to hairdresser to get it coloured rather than doing it yourself?

Jayne: Yeah. Yeah, it would've been too messy a job to do that. I had so much hair. One thing I inherit from my Mum is the thickness. It is so thick. 

Helen: So, what was the trigger to choosing to go grey then?

Jayne: You know what? I don't think it really was a choice. I battled it for a while. My hair just all of a sudden changed. And I did find that from having it done professionally at the hairdressers, after a week or a couple of washes, it didn't really look nice and red anymore. It was like a weak orange.

And I think it was a mixture of the menopause coming in. So, sort of early fifties, 48, 49, towards my early fifties. It was the menopause. And I attributed it to the fact that the hormones had sort of played a huge part, and now I was deciding that I was not going to be red anymore. I was old and grey, and that's the way it was gonna be. 

And also, we had the Lockdown as well when we couldn't get to hairdressers. So, I found myself finding a box dye that I was happier with. And became this, I dunno how to describe the colour. It was like a very pale, it wasn't even strawberry blonde, probably a bit dark in the strawberry blonde, but I just hated it.

I hated it on my head, and I hated the way it made my skin look. I just looked so anaemic, and just didn't have any sort of joy in my face, if I can describe that as that. Where, when I had red hair, I always felt vibrant and happy. This just seemed to drag me down when I had the in between hair, shall we say.

And it's quite obvious when I look through my Instagram. Photographs. You know, you can see the transition from where I've gone to where I am now, which does make me smile. Obviously, it's a journey, isn't it?

Helen: Yeah. So, the midway colour, was that a semi-permanent colour or a permanent?

Jayne: Yeah, it was semi-permanent. Semi-permanent. And I'd started to have it done at the hairdressers. Because I think we'd reached the conclusion when I was getting to, you know, going almost every week to have the root touch up, because I hated seeing the, regrowth in red hair. You get away with it with blonde hair, but in red hair, it's just so obvious. And I hated that. 

I think it stems back from, a childhood where my grandma's sister lived in Yorkshire. Auntie Vi she was called. And she used to dye her hair bright red, but every time we went, she always had this root regrowth. And I always used to think, I don't want to look like my Auntie Vi.

So, we decided, myself and my hairdresser, that we would try and start that process to go a little bit lighter, and see how we went. And, that should only have just been a temporary thing, you know. In terms of let's see how you feel, and if you don't like it, then we can always go back red.

But actually, stripping red out and taking that journey forward to become where I am now, isn't something that happens overnight. It absolutely doesn't. So yeah, I was having it done at the hairdressers and then when Lockdown came in, I'd sort of had to take over self-care, as did many, many ladies.

Helen: Yeah.

Jayne: Yeah.

Helen: But you kept dying it for a while?

Jayne: I did, I did. And in fact, Husband and I had to clear out of the weekend, and I found two box dyes. One was like the pinky, not quite strawberry, wrong colour that I'd used during Lockdown. And then towards the end of Lockdown, or when I was becoming more happy, I found one there was ice white. So, I must've been really keen at that point to try and turn this colour from being an orangey colour to white.

But the saddest thing was I also found the clip-in hair extensions that I used to wear when I went out. 

Helen: Okay.

Jayne: Which were a vivid, vivid red. And he said, do you want to keep these? I said, no, what purpose do they serve me now. You know, it's probably going to be as cheap to go buy new hair extensions and get them matched to my colour. Take them away now, take them to the tip. So,o he went to the tip.

Helen: So, your grow out, did it just sort of gradually fade then when you went to the ice white?

Jayne: It did. It did. But then by then we sort of moved on from being the sort of strawberry blonde to, it was almost like an ombre haircut. So it was grey that was fading out, but then we tried to tone in the bottom, so there wasn't just a distinct hard line between them.

Helen: Yep.

Jayne: But the problem with doing that, of course, is there's gotta be an element of bleach. And you’re sort of on a bit of a hamster wheel then, because you're bleaching the ends to make them lighter, to match the roots. But then they start going yellow as well. So, it's forever going round, and you're thinking I'm not gonna be able to get off this.

The only way I'm gonna be able to get off this is by putting the brakes on. And that's exactly what I did. Myself and a hairdresser, partly because he refused to dye my hair back again every time, I keep threatening it to do when I go. But also, he just said, we are not gonna get over this. The only way we are gonna get over this is by cutting out the bleach bit. 

You know, we just gonna have to, just sort of bite the bullet, and leave it, and see how we go. So, for quite a few years now, we've been just putting a toner on. And I've been using purple shampoo, and, you know, all the stuff that everyone, when you read all these websites and other groups tell you to do.

But in all honesty, at my last visit a few weeks ago, I think we've cut most of it out now. So, everything down to where my chin is, is all my natural colour. 

Helen: Yeah.

Jayne: And what I've got in the ends is probably a tiny little bit of bleached hair left, got a little bit of brownie tones in it. But once that goes, it's all me.

Helen: Yeah.

Jayne: And interestingly, if you remember I said at the beginning that when I was a child it was sort of mousey brown and I had this sort of dark streak in the back of my hair, like this two-inch streak. Now I find that my hair is quite light, but underneath here, the bit that was always really bleached has now gone really dark. So, it's sort of taken a reverse. 

My ultimate was always to have a darker colour pull through underneath, so that it gave it some depth. But actually, I don't think I want to do that now. Don't think I want to do that. 

And the reason I don't want to do that is for years, you know, I couldn't go out. Whether it was to meeting, or out on a night out without at least one person stopping me and saying, wow, your hair looks amazing. Love that colour red. You know, where have you had it done? Could you recommend your hairdresser? Et cetera, et cetera. 

Now I'm finding that when I go out, even if I'm just going out to the local town shopping of a weekend, people are stopping me again. Or even, in shops and saying your hair looks amazing. You know, is that all natural? And obviously response is, well, yes. I pay a fortune to have mine done like that. 

Only this Saturday just gone somebody did the same to me, you know? And I just went, oh, thank you very much. Now the old me would've gone, oh, thanks, but I hate it, you know? So even though I say I'm still coming to terms with it, I am still coming to terms with it. I love the red hair, but I'm coming to terms with being this white, white grey. 

'cause , my perception used to be that if you've got grey hair, you're old. Suppose I am old in years. I was 56 a few weeks ago. But in my head, I'm not old, so I'm not gonna let that that rule it.

But yeah, I'm okay with it now, I think. Still have those little pangs of now and again of what, oh, what if I could go red again, would I do that? And in actual fact, it's at the side of me, it's in my office. I did actually buy a red wig.

Helen: And have you worn it?

Jayne: I don't know why. I have worn it. I have worn it a couple of times, but not recently. It was before I was completely happy with the full on grey white that I am now. 

But I have worn it a couple of times. And the minute I put on, I just felt myself transform, and I was back to the old me. You know, I love the colour of it. I like the way it made my skin look, made my eyes pop.

But then the grey is doing it equally as well. But that little bit in between here that you've gotta persevere with, I just didn't like at all. It just was not me. You know, I've got a whole host of really good friends and family who are blonde, and they love it. But I didn't like being blonde at all. I hated it. Hated it.

Helen: Okay. How about your style then, because I guess when you had the red hair, you were probably wearing quite dramatic clothing as well?

Jayne: Red was my favourite colour. I mean, I'm probably one of those who does tend to wear a lot of black because, black slimming, isn't it? You know? And we all get a bit conscious of our weight. 

I do like a pop of colour now and I find that, I used to hate pink. I used to hate the hot pinks and any sort of pink. But I have found myself introducing those into my wardrobe, 'cause they do set my hair off, and my skin tone, and my eyes. And I also complimented when I wear pink. 

So interestingly, I think my vibrancy, and colours that I wear, is more now that I've gone lighter.

Helen: That's not unusual to be fair.

Jayne: Is it not?

Helen: No, quite a few people like to add colour with clothes and, kind of to shy away from the whole grey hair and beige, old look.

Jayne: Yeah. Yeah. That's not something I’ve thought about. But yeah, maybe my subconscious was saying, you need to do this so you can be as vibrant as you used to be.

Helen: How about your makeup? Has that changed?

Jayne: Well, obviously, I mean, you know, back in the day it was pink eyeshadows, and blue eyeshadows, and thin eyebrows, and things like that. So obviously that's changed. 

But I've tweaked it slightly because when I was copper, my eye makeup used to be quite browns and coppers. And I think I still do a little bit of that now, but I tried to put some colour in it as well. Again, just to give it a little bit of a pop. 

I found interestingly, and I dunno if this is the colour thing, or it's an age thing, but my eyes are quite a sort of a grey-y, grey-y blue colour. But if I put a pop of purple, sort of, in the crease of my eye, my eyes just look amazing. 

I don't get my makeup done professionally, unless I'm going to a ball or something like that. But the girl who does my makeup has started to do that, and she's just been amazed by how much it's transformed. 

I always used to look at people who had had the colour analysis, you know, and then start wearing clothes that suit them. And maybe I should do that because, I really saw the transformation when I wore the purple eyeshadow for sure. Not all over. I didn't wanna look like a Goth,

Helen: Yeah, yeah.

Jayne: but just, just a little bit. Just to give it a little bit of a pop. Yeah.

Helen: Yeah, I wear loads of blue, 'cause my eyes are probably a similar colour to yours, 

Jayne: Yeah.

Helen: and everyone's like blue just makes your eyes pop.

Jayne: Yeah. There's one colour I don't wear, is yellow, and I don't know why. I've never really felt an affinity with yellow. But I have blue on today, I don't mind blue. But again, I've got quite a few different things now that are, I like green. Green is probably my favourite colour now, rather than black.

Helen: How did your friends and family react when you decided to go grey?

Jayne: I think, because for them they've seen me through all of that, so it doesn't look any different. But I think the people who haven't seen me for a while, you know, I'm going back some years as well, like distant family, and what have you, they're quite shocked. Because they'd always known me as this, you know, vivid redhaired, I was gonna say girl then, but I'm not a girl, vivid, redhaired person.

And now I walk in like the ghost of Christmas past with my white silvery white hair. But I think friends around me, you know, and even my son the other week, my son's 24 said to me, you know, I think I prefer your hair like that than I did with the red. So yeah.

Helen: That's good.

Jayne: Mixed reactions, mixed reactions.

Helen: Another question about the length of your hair, so traditionally when you went grey, you had your hair cut short.

Jayne: No, I didn't, no.

This is the thing. When I say I sort of had this ombre effect going on, but even though it wasn't intentional. My hair is quite short now, was sort of down to over my shoulders. So, I had the top bit that was sort of silvery blonde, and there had the middle bit that was like the blonde that was growing out, and then the bottom bit was a sort of a browny blonde colour. 

Helen: Yeah.

Jayne: So, it was really was a mixed bag. I used to say that, I hated this, I wanted it gone. Because it looked like I'd been smoking 50 fags a day, you know? 'cause it was like a yellowy, horrible browny, yellowy colour.

So what my hairdresser and I started to do, 'cause with the Menopause, it grows like wildfire. My hair and my nails absolutely grow like wildfire. Because it's so thick, I've not noticed thinning. So, every time I go now I have at least an inch and a half an inch cut off. We've sort of cut it away, if you, like I say I've still got a little bit left on the end, but it's not been an easy process.

We're in 2025 now. So, since COVID-19 is when I started in earnest. I didn't really have a choice. So yeah, it's been a good-few-years to get it to this. And like I say, I jumped off that Ferris wheel of continually having the dark bits at the bottom bleached. Because you are just constantly doing that then you're not really gaining, I'd have still been here 10 years, hence trying to wait for it all to grow out naturally.

And now it just has a nice natural shine anyway on the silvery grey. So, I'm okay with that.

Helen: Your hair's a little bit below your shoulders now.

Jayne: Yeah, a little bit behind my shoulders now. Yeah. It's nice and shiny. That was one of the things we used to struggle with, when I was still trying to hang on to the red hair. When I was hitting menopause my hair was so unpredictable. 

We never knew what was gonna happen when he put the toner, or the colour on the roots. Because I'd go one time, and it'd be quite dull. And then the next time, I'd have a really shiny bit of head on the top. The new hair would really grab onto it and make it shiny. And the rest of it was all dull. So, it really was a battle. 

I think every time I walked through the door I saw, but my hairdresser’s shoulders like sag, you know, as if say, oh God, what we gonna get today, she’s here again? And now, I was with him the other day and, he said, I'm sort of putting myself out of a job, because he said, I'm telling you now not to put anything on your hair. 

You know, but I said, well, I quite like that. I like the fact that you're honest. Either you're lazy and you can't be bothered these days, or you are actually thinking of my hair health. So whichever that is, then I'm grateful. So, yeah.

Helen: And how are you finding the condition of it now?

Jayne: Oh, it's great. It's great. I've never really been a great user of conditioner. I tried doing the tricks that I've heard of, you know, condition it first, then wash it, and then condition it slightly again. 

I'm gonna sound really filthy now. I don't wash my hair every day, because it's so thick it would take me forever to dry. So, I wash my hair about twice a week. But I very rarely condition when I wash it. Only when I think it needs it. 

And I know I probably should change the outlook and start doing it, but I've yet to find a conditioner that doesn't feel like it's stuck in my hair after I've rinsed it, and rinsed it, and rinsed it. 

I've got purple conditioner and shampoo, which I use very occasionally. But I'm really, tentative in using it. I'll put it on, and literally almost wash it off straight away. Because I've seen lots of people, you know, obviously using purple shampoo day in day out. And they've just looks like violet hair, like, you know, Mrs Slocombe, off Are you being served? It doesn't even do evenly. It does it sort of patchy. 

So, the shampoo I tend to use now is something quite neutral without any sulphates in. What's the one I'm using now? I think it's, is it Palmer's, a coconut oil shampoo.

Helen: Okay.

Jayne: So, there's nothing in there. It smells nice and it keeps my hair clean. 

Then I do occasionally strip it out with L'Oreal, do a product called Metal Box. I live in quite a hard water area. So sometimes my hair just feels a little bit meh. If I use that, which was probably once a month, it feels amazing, and it dries absolutely like I've just walked out the salon. 

I should use every week really? I don't think it's good for hair to do that, so I use it like once a month just to, strip it. I used to use a stripping-shampoo years ago, just to get all the products that I was using in my hair. You know, back in the day when you were putting mousse, and hairspray, and then more mousse, and hairspray, when your hair was really sticky, 'cause you had that much in there. Where now I don't really have anything in there.

Helen: I only wash my months a week, so I'm worse than you.

Jayne: it doesn't need it though. That's the other thing I've found. It doesn't get greasy really quickly,

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Jayne: so, so yeah, there's something to be said for going into its natural state, isn't there?

Helen: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what tips and advice would you have for them?

Jayne: I think the advice would be, you've gotta be resilient. You know, it's not going to happen overnight. There's lots of hairdressers I see advertising. They do grey blending, but just bear in mind that grey blending involves bleach and then you getting, the bleach turns yellow. So that's, a long way forward. 

Just be patient. And I think for me, doing that transition, even though I wasn't happy with the colour. It still looked like it was well maintained and well cared for. Some people can live quite happily with, I've got lots of friends who've got dark hair, black hair, who've let the root growth come out.

But I think now it's more accepted that that is what people are doing, that there's an intentional grow out rather than it being a forced one. So, don't lose heart with it, you know, bear with it.

And try and find a hairdresser who is sympathetic to what you're trying to achieve at the end. And not just trying to thrust more and more ways, and colours that are just gonna lead you down another path that you don't want to be. 

It's inevitable. We're all going to turn grey at some point. We'll just try and make your transition down that route as easy for yourself as possible. Because it's easier on the pocket too.

Helen: Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest.

Jayne: You’re welcome.

Helen: Enjoy the rest of your day.

Jayne: Yes. Thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.