Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Joanne Bonnett, AKA jobo_silver_linings, and she's all about finding the silver linings in midlife. 30 years married to Tim and an empty nest. She's embracing this season with curiosity, honesty, and humour. Through her work at Enneagram 247, she helps others understand themselves more deeply and grow into who they really are in midlife and beyond.

Hello, Joanne. How are you?

Joanne: Hello, Helen. Thank you for having me. I'm great. Good. Happy to be here.

Helen: I'm gonna start by taking you back. What was your hair like when you were a child?

Joanne: When I was a child, well, it changed a lot, but I started out with very fair hair, blonde, wavy. We lived in West Africa when I was quite young, so I think it stayed blonde for longer than it would've done. But I've always had good hair. My sister had very, very straight hair, which I love. But mine was that hair that, you know, you could curl it, you could wave it, you could do whatever you wanted with it.

It grew to be very dark. My Mum was very dark, my Dad was very dark. Both of them went grey, quite young, in different ways. I guess I was following that path as well. But my hair was never really anything other than, you know, I liked it. It was fine.

Helen: Was it long?

Joanne: Up and down. I mean, I remember mostly it was kind of about shoulder length, it wasn't super long. Certainly had a couple of dodgy fringes that my Mum cut over the years. Or it was tied up in a top knot? 

I was a child growing up in the Eighties as a teenager, so there were lots of perms. And I can't remember what they're called, those sticks that you used to wrap, rubberized sticks that used to wrap your hair around to make it curly. I used to love doing that, because it would stay curly for days until I washed it again. But yeah, typically long, and lots of it.

Helen: Did you experiment with colouring it when you were in your teens?

Joanne: I did. Henna was a thing, and I used to buy it from probably the Body Shop in the 1980s. And what a mess that was. But that's where I started. And then from there, yes. Certainly many, many years of box dyes and all kinds of other things. Yeah.

Helen: When did you find your first grey?

Joanne: Probably when I was about 16. And it's one of those things where you're like, is that really a grey hair? And I would talk to friends about it. But friends that had fairer hair might not have noticed, but I was like my hair's quite dark, and that one is white. Where's that from?

So, I'd pluck them out. And I'd pluck out a couple. I think really can I really have grey hairs at this age? And then remember my Mum saying, you know, I actually started finding my first few grey hairs when I was younger. And in fact, her response was, you know, just why I dye it and she still dyed it, you know?

So that's where it started, I guess. Playing with colour was a natural thing as a teenager. I think lots of us were doing it. But I was also aware quite early, that I really didn't wanna have any grey hair showing. So, yeah, that's why that started.

Helen: Do you know why you didn't wanna have any grey hair showing?

Joanne: I don’t know. But I mean, it's interesting since, I'm talking to you, I've been thinking about this and thinking part of the reason was probably that, my Mum made it so clear that yes, she'd had grey hairs and that she dyed hers. 

Her sisters had grey hair as well. One of them I think dyed it certainly, for a little while. But after a while, they were both much more relaxed, and allowed themselves to show their natural grey hair. And I never thought it looked anything other than lovely on them. It suited them. 

Whereas my Mum, I actually often thought, you know, I think you are dyeing your hair really dark, and it maybe it doesn't suit you.

There was obviously that ingrained sense of grey hair is not good on a woman. So, you don't want grey hair because you're gonna look old. And that I think is the biggest thing. You know, you're going to look older. And it wasn't even a question as to whether or not you would want to dye it or hide it, it was more how soon can you start or how do you do it?

Helen: Yeah. Yeah. So, did yours colour it yourself or did you have it done at the hairdressers?

Joanne: Well, it changed. I mean, I was married at 26. And around that time, I certainly was aware that I had quite a lot of grey coming through. It would be regularly, touched up and I would be dyeing it myself. 

But I had my hair cut short. And that was partly because I thought, well, I'll have my hair cut short. I wonder if that's gonna make it easier. Because by, yeah, 25, 26, I was so regularly having to dye my hair every couple of weeks, touching up the roots.

And it was not good for my hair. So, the fact that I cut it short meant that if I was dyeing it myself, the build-up of the box dye didn't last as long because the ends were being cut off so regularly. So, it was very, very short when I was first married and had young children. And I thought that was because it was easier to maintain it. 

But over time, probably as I got towards 40, I had a little phase where I actually had some purple, put into my hair, and didn't want to look frumpy, was my kind of idea of it that was more about the style.

But there was never any questions to whether I stopped dyeing my hair or not. I just kept on dyeing it. And you asked about whether I dyed it myself. I always did until I started having more sort of highlights, lowlights and being aware that just this solid flat box dye in a really dark brown, not quite black, but almost was flat and it was unflattering. 

So, I started having highlights, or lowlights, or sort of different tones, and slices of colour put in. But it always looked a bit naff to be honest. And then in later years when I grew my hair long again and was still dyeing it. Same issue that if you keep dyeing it yourself, the box dye really can damage the hair.

So, I started going to my hairdresser, and she had this deal where I could go every three weeks and I pay a reduced fee, but almost like a set rate. But I didn't have it cut every time. I only had it cut every sort of third time that I went. And she would do my roots for me. So yeah, every three weeks I was going to hairdressers. But typically, in between that I was starting to use the sprays to touch up the roots. 

Going on holiday, the stress of having to make sure that I had my roots done as close as possible before I went away. So that it wasn't gonna show by the time I came back. But if I was ever away for two weeks, I've been known to take a box dye with me to touch up my roots while I was on holiday. Or you'd have the sprays, but obviously that's not great if you're in the water or something. 

So yeah, it was something I was conscious of. And on photos thinking, oh, it looks like I've got a bald patch there where greys coming through in my parting, you know? And it was just this real awareness of how conscious I was of my roots not showing.

Helen: Yeah, you kind of have this low-grade stress the whole time, don't you?

Joanne: Yeah. And it is ridiculous. Other people. How much did they notice it? Did they care? Probably not. But I had this real sense of how, you know, in my corporate role, and then I had I've had my own businesses on and off. It was thinking, oh, it just wouldn't look professional if I had my roots showing, or I wouldn't look put together, or like I was taking care of myself.

It's almost that whole thing about how you are presenting yourself. And my roots were a big, big part of that.

Helen: So, what was the trigger for going grey then?

Joanne: Lockdown. But I also think a sense of, as I got a bit older, you know, I turned 50 and there were lots of things that I was starting to question. I was questioning, challenging my body image. I'd always had issues with weight, or thinking that I had issues with weight. And the reality was, I was healthy, and fit, and flexible, and strong, and not skinny, but maybe that was okay. 

And I was starting to realize that, and embracing who I was more. And in Lockdown when it became clear that I couldn't go to the hairdressers. And we made this clandestine arrangement at one point for me to pick up a kit of the little mixing pot, and the little brush, and some premixed hair dye so I could do my roots.

I kind of thought, I'm sure that there must be a different way of doing this. And because it had been left a bit longer than it normally would've been, and I hadn't been going out or worrying about it so much. I could see, my goodness, there's a lot of grey under there, way more than I thought there might be. I wonder what it would look like to, you know, not dye it. 

I'd had my colours done, in terms of my colour and style with colour analysis previously. And I'm a Winter colouring, it's clear and bright where bright, clear colours, jewel colours suit me white and black suit me.

And I remember at the time I'd had in an attempt to tone down the darkness of my hair, and maybe allow it to be a little bit more forgiving. I'd had some highlights put in my hair, so some bits of blonde and different things. [And I was told very clearly that those warm tones really didn't suit me at all, and weren't doing me any favours. This is prior to Lockdown. 

I said, do you know what? I've got a lot of grey hair under here. And she said, do you know, she said If it's grey hair, then it's kind of a silver, or a white, or a bright grey. It would really suit you. That is your natural colour and I think it could look great.

And I said, well, I don't know. How do you know what's under there? And she said, well, the reality is most people, and this is from a colour analyst, most people's natural hair colour is actually really well suited to their natural skin tone. 

So, these words came back during Lockdown. And I'm thinking, I wonder. So, I bought a wig. I bought a grey, cheap, £10 wig on Amazon. And tried it on thinking what would it look like if I went silver? 

At the same time, I popped onto Instagram. And was searching silver hair, grey hair, long grey hair, you know, ditching the dye. And found this whole community of Silver Sisters started to appear a few of them. I thought, wow, some of these women look amazing. They look fantastic. They're owning it. I wonder what mine would be like. And then I just got curious. 

So, I posted a picture of me wearing this grey wig on Facebook. I think at the time I wasn't really on Instagram. And said, thinking about, ditching the dye, and letting my natural grey hair show up. I can't get to the hairdressers, so I wonder if it could look like this in a few months-time, shall I go for it? 

And this picture of a grey wig, which is not really like my actual hair looks now, but loads of people came back and were like, oh gosh, go for it. Wow, that looks fantastic. Wow, you look great. So, I thought, yeah, I'm gonna go for it. 

And Instagram then was a place where I thought I'm gonna start a little Instagram account. I'm gonna call it jobo_silver_linings. And I'm just gonna use that to quietly post pictures of myself as I am, and the transition. And if you go back to my very first posts on, on jobo_silver_linings, that's exactly what I was doing.

I was completely green and unaware. But people started commenting. And giving advice and tips, and you know, go for it and support. So, I carried on. And yeah, here we are.

Helen: So, the grow-out itself, how did you do that? Obviously, you started just with the roots and the line.

Joanne: Yes, started with the roots and the line. I was actually working a lot online, so I was in my office, and often on Zoom so I could see it. And I'd take photos, and I took photos of the roots in the line as it came through. And just went cold turkey. 

I knew that there were options of either just have to wait until this grows out, and cut my hair as I go. Or I'll get to a point where I go, well, I'll go back to where I was in my early twenties and just have it all cut off, and have a pixie cut. Which I didn't really want to do, but I knew that was an option. 

But I did actually stick with it, and kept it growing out. I always joke, I say I looked a bit like a skunk, because it was very much the black and white contrast, very high contrast.

I bought a hair scrunchie, sort of like a fake hair scrunchie piece with some grey hair on. So, as it started to grow out, I could put my hair up into a scrunchie, and it looked like I had a silver messy bun. I wore hats, and I did braids, and I played with my hair so much. I think there was a lot of time during Lockdown.

But eventually, after about four months, I started to read, I think it was Jack Martin, Colourist who has a very active site on Instagram. Who was doing a lot of celebrity hair transitions, and blending hair. And I spoke to my hairdresser, who was obviously a little bit, bereft at the lack of seeing me by that point. Lost one of her big, big clients.

I said, do you think you could do this? You know, do you think you could blend the dyed ends of my hair? As long as you don't touch the actual natural silver that's coming through, could you blend it? And she actually did a lot of research and we did a little test, as to how it would work on my hair, knowing that I was gonna spend time and money doing this, and if it didn't work, then the next option would've been a pixie cut. 

But I was okay with that. I said, I'm gonna give it a go. I hadn't seen many people on Instagram at the time who'd done a blend. I'll be honest, I felt a bit like I was cheating. I almost felt like, am I kind of letting down the sisterhood here where there's so many people that are, growing out and they're going through this process?

But I just got to a point of going. I don't love the two-tone look on me. Now I kind of think, oh, maybe I should have stuck with it a bit longer. But I made that decision at the time, and I think you've just gotta go with what feels right for you. It worked, it wasn't perfect, but it was a really, really great transition.

And then, of course, over time, gradually as my hair was being trimmed and cut, the ends were being cut away. We did have a bit of a bigger cut, I think I probably had a point where I had four or five inches cut off into a long bob point, which was a really great feeling 'cause that was the right, this is all my natural hair now. And yeah, that was the final transition. 

Helen: I think it's quite interesting 'cause I do think some people kind of had the line as a badge of honour. And it's like, if you feel comfortable with that, fair enough. But if you don't feel comfortable with that, all the other options are just as good, it’s whatever feels comfortable for the person.

Joanne: Absolutely. There is too many places in this world where women are judged. And actually, the thing that I find the hardest is when women are judging each other, and criticizing each other rather than supporting, and encouraging, and uplifting, the choices that we make.

The very start of it, the line where it was like, has she just not been able to dye her roots, or has she just decided to stop. And then people, you know, there's almost those comments of, oh, you've let yourself go, or you are, letting your roots go, or I bet you can't wait to get back to the hairdressers to get your roots done.

And then as time went on, I was about four months, and my hair grows pretty quickly. So, I had a decent enough grow out that it was very clear that this was not accidental. This was Intentional. And it did flip between the pride in it actually, and this joy, and quite enjoying the conversations It sparked. 

And enjoying the engagement that was growing on Instagram and the other women that I was chatting to about it. So, when I was in that space, I felt very supported, and very encouraged. 

But there was other spaces where I was running a business, and I was running team meetings, and I was talking to potential new clients, or customers, and people on Zoom who were seeing me for the first time. 

And when people in my team started saying that, they'd had a couple of comments back when people going, you know, oh, I'm surprised when she has a wellness business and they're saying, I'm surprised that she's let herself go, and that your manager hasn't done her roots. 

Initially, of course, I was quite indignant and almost wanted to rebel against that. And say, well, A) Who were they to say, and how dare they, and did they really actually comment on my appearance, because that's, really not okay. And B) I am intentionally doing this, and therefore, I didn't want to change my mind or blend because of what other people were saying. 

But there was also then a point where I was looking at myself, and going it doesn't look great. So, I needed to make a decision, and the decision was either cut it off so that it's a pixie cut or shorter cut, or blend it and see how that goes. 

And as I'm saying this to you now, Helen, I'm thinking, gosh, that sounds like I gave into people making negative comments. But it was an overall sense that that space on Instagram was very supportive. The space in the rest of the World, maybe less so. People didn't understand it. And I was spending a lot more time in the rest of the World than I was on Instagram. So yeah, that was partly what drove that decision, I think.

Helen: It's lovely that you're being so honest about that.

Joanne: Yeah.

Helen: Now that you've finished the grow-out, what sort of reaction do you get from people?

Joanne: Oh, I mean, nothing but positive comments. Okay, 99.5% positive comments. 

My husband's always been super supportive. And that was one of the things, when I said to him, I'm thinking about growing out my grey hair, my silver hair, what do you think? First of all, he said, well, number one, I don't think you've ever asked me for my permission on anything that you do or wear or whatever. So, it's absolutely a hundred percent gonna be your decision. 

And secondly, he said, I don't remember me coming to you and asking how you felt about me going grey. You know, the whole silver fox thing with men going grey. It just happens. And it's the double standard of that. So, he was always super supportive and I know loves my hair.

Family and friends, one or two people have said, I'll be honest, I wasn't sure when you started this process, what it was gonna be like, but actually I love it. 

I've recently come back from a trip to China, where my son lives with his girlfriend. And there were several occasions where people would stop me, on the escalators, in the street, in a restaurant, and say, I just have to say your hair is amazing. I love your hair. Because culturally it's maybe less, or less common in that part of the World for women to not dye their hair. 

I get a lot of people that comment randomly, and say, oh, hair looks great, I love your silver hair. I've had conversations with people in supermarkets, and other places saying, I love your hair. And then there's this moment of recognition of like, yeah, I love your hair. It's great. 

And some of them have got no clue about Instagram or any of the Silver Sisters. It's just, you know, this is who they are and good for them. I love it. I get a very positive reaction. 

And sometimes I will go to Instagram, and there's a pinned post that shows the comparison between how it was and how it is now. Obviously on a good day. But people will look and go, my goodness, yeah, it brightens up your face, your skin looks brighter, your eyes look brighter. 

And oh, the time it saves, the stress and the hassle it saves. There's plenty of things to worry about in life and to think about. But dyeing my roots is not one of them.

Helen: Totally with you there. I'm just gonna ask you one quick question about the condition of your hair. How is the condition of your hair now compared to when you dyed it?

Joanne: Ugh. Better than it's ever been. And I think that's one of the big things that maybe people would be resistant of. You know, I dunno about you, Helen, I'd had this perception that grey hair, you know, we are fed this, the images of the crone, and the hag, and the witch, and your hair is a bit wild and witchy. So, you think that grey hair is suddenly gonna be more wiry, or coarse, or dull.

And actually, quite the contrary is true. It's thicker. It's stronger. It is healthier. It's growing faster. I've certainly had more new hair. And I think that's a big difference, when I talk to other friends who are maybe going through menopause, or perimenopause, and hormonal changes, where there's this expectation that our hair pattern might change.

And I think for some women it does. I've not experienced that sense of thinner hair, or loss, or anything. And I do wonder if it's because I'm not putting the chemicals on it. There'll be some of the Silversisters, I'm sure who've said that one of the reasons they stopped dyeing their hair was because they were reacting to the chemicals or that it was disrupting and with hormonal shifts, they needed to make the change. 

But for me it's thicker, it's shinier, it grows well. It also is more balanced. I feel like my scalp is way more balanced, 'cause I don't need to wash my hair as often as I used to. I used to typically wash my hair most days, and at very least every other day.

Whereas now, I don't tend to go more than four or five days, because I'll either go for a swim or, you know, just wash my hair. But it doesn't seem to be dry or greasy. it's just pretty balanced. People are surprised as well how soft it is. It's very soft, and very shiny. Yeah.

Helen: Mine's similar. I used to have mine bleached blonde. 

Joanne: Yeah.

Helen: So, it was very matte, and very dry.

Joanne: Yeah.

Helen: It's a lot shinier now 

Joanne: Yeah.

Helen: than it was then. And just it doesn't get split ends the same because it used to Split all the time.

Joanne: Yes. Yeah, that's another difference as well. When I had my hair dyed dark and dark brown, because I'd had it done with a hairdresser and there was a lot of time and effort, it was shiny. You know, and brunette hair, brown hair typically can be more shiny sometimes than, dyed blonde hair, I don't know. But, yeah, I have been surprised, that my hair was shiny. 

But I know that the main reason for me, although I've talked about how I looked, and I've been aware of that. The main reason for making the change was actually, just moving away from another layer, or a mask, that I was presenting to the World, that wasn't authentically me. And being more real with who I was, was part of that was what was driving, the shift to my grey hair showing up. 

When people said, oh, you're gonna look older. I was like, so what? I am older. I will be older next year. I'll be older next year, than I was this year. And if I look older, great. Oh, you, you might look five years, 10 years older. Well, so what, you know. If you're 50, but you might look 60. But who says? Who says what 50 looks like? what 60 looks like?

You know, we need to redefine some of these things. Make people, normalize the fact that, it's not about looking good for your age, it's just about looking good. However you are. Whatever your hair colour is. It's certainly not about an age thing. That wasn't my driver. 

Although I would say, I think I look if not younger, because younger wasn't the goal. I think I look fresher, and brighter, and more awake, and more, yeah, more myself. Which is great.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question.

Joanne: Yeah.

Helen: If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey. What advice or tips would you have for them?

Joanne: I would say, first of all, you do you. Do it because you want to do it. If you're curious and you want to try it, unless you try it, you'll never know. People often say, oh, you know, my hair isn't the same colour as yours, or I don't know that my hair would look like yours. No, it probably wouldn't, but it would look like yours.

And what I've seen from the hundreds and thousands of women with silver hair that I've come across, or interacted with, or know, is that that's one of the absolute beauties about our grey, natural, silver hair. It is unique, and it will be uniquely you. So, give yourself some time and space to discover what that looks like for you. 

And follow the path that suits you. If it is about, you know, just going for the grey grow out and having the line, own it. And there's lots of people that you'll be able to refer to. And get that support. You know, I often say go on Instagram, look at the Silversisters, see the variety. Connect with people, and ask for advice and tips.

Whichever way you want to do it, whether you are gonna just grow out, whether you're gonna cut your hair, whether you're gonna blend it. Whether hats become a big part of your life. Do it in a way that suits you. But do give yourself enough time. Don't just think, oh yeah, I've done, you know, three or four weeks and I've got a little bit of a line there.

Because actually as time goes on, yours probably the same, Helen, you know, my hair's still changing. It's still evolving, and coming through a slightly different pattern of grey, and the mix as time goes on. So, yeah, be yourself. Enjoy it. But also no judgment. I think we should be supporting other women however they choose to look.

Hair became such a big focus of my life, and posting, and what am I doing with my hair today? What am I saying about my hair? And how am I styling my hair? And I must admit that I'm now much more in a phase of, you know, my hair is my hair and there's other stuff that I'm doing and talking about, and that's where my, energy is focused now.

But I do happen to have great silver hair, and I love it.

Helen: Brilliant. Well, I'm gonna leave it there. Thanks so much for joining me. You've been a great guest.

Joanne: Oh, thank you Helen. And, yeah, finding your silver linings. Good luck everybody, and enjoy it. And I respond to DMs usually if people ask me, if they've, you know, got anything that they're interested in, in terms of silver hair,

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.