Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Sarah Heaney, who runs her own network marketing business, alongside being the Membership Manager for the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce and President of the Scottish Women in Business. Hello, Sarah. How are you?

Sarah: I am good. Thank you. How are you, Helen?

Helen: I'm good. I've had a walk and a run today, so I'm glad I'm now sat down.

Sarah: Oh, that is fantastic. We have had hailstones in Glasgow today. I've been promising myself that I'm gonna go out for a run, but I think that might need to wait until after work.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Sarah: I was really dark as a child. I would say one shade off of Jet Black. It was very, very dark brown, almost black. Similar style to what I've got now. So, about shoulder length, but I had a big thick fringe for quite a lot of my teens. Yeah, that was my hair.

I got the Rachel from Friends haircut, so I got my hair all feathered. It was quite long. Yeah, that was me when I was younger.

Helen: Would you say your hair was central to your image when you were younger?

Sarah: Yes and no. I think I've always been somebody who likes to express myself through my clothes, how I style my clothes, I guess. And my hair. So it was, but it also wasn't. I always wear bright clothing, and I guess that the clothes that I wore were bright colours, which contrasted my dark hair.

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: So yeah, yes and no.

Helen: When did you find your first grey hair?

Sarah: I find my first grey hair, unlucky for some, on my 13th birthday. Which I think that is quite a young age to find grey hairs. But actually, not as unusual as people might think to be getting greys in your teens.

Helen: Yeah, I find my first one at 18, and I've spoken to plenty of other people who found them in the teens.

Sarah: And I think it's always interesting to find out, what did you do when you found it? Pluck it out.

Helen: Yes, I think I did. I didn't actually find it. My Mum found mine.

Sarah: Wow.

Helen: And she was kind of like, oh, you've got a grey hair. And I'm like, why are you pleased about it? You're my mother. If I'm getting old, what are you getting? Because obviously teenager.

Sarah: Yeah, that, yeah. That is interesting. I don't even know. I don't really remember speaking to my Mum about it. I just plucked it straight out. I think as well, because it was a different texture, it was more wiry. It stuck out more, so I did, yeah, I got rid of it straight away.

Helen: And did you continue to pull them out as they appeared?

Sarah: Yes, I did. Although I don't really remember that stage of it being overwhelming. So, there can't have been that many, that I did until I got to the stage where I was probably, I think late teens, early twenties is probably when I started box dyeing my hair. With just your bog-standard supermarket shelf, dark brown, dark, dark brown hair. 

So, trying to keep it as natural as I could. A couple of times, I went through phases of getting like a big red streak, so I'd get it bleached, but it was always dark, dark hair.

Helen: And how often were you having to diet?

Sarah: So back then, not that often. I would say probably I was maybe, and I did go to the hairdresser and get it, but I don't really remember ever getting it dyed so much in the hairdressers. It was probably, I'd say mid-twenties before I was having to keep on top of it properly. 

That's when it started getting to my grey roots would be coming in within, realistically a couple of weeks, probably of dyeing it. You could get touch-up dyes, but you couldn't get all the sprays and the mascara and all of that, or I don't remember getting them, when I was in my twenties. 

That was a much later thing probably, yeah until I was in my thirties. So, yeah, the upkeep of it was a lot. And I think it's not just the time, and the expense of dyeing. It's also working out the schedule of when am I gonna have to do that? When do I have that event? When have I got a friend's wedding, or a business meeting or, you know, I'm going out with friends or whenever.

And trying to make sure that you got your hair into the right routine. So, you're just constantly, even though you're not having to dye it all the time, you're constantly thinking about it, and how you're gonna maintain it and the upkeep of it, which is tiresome.

Helen: So, feeling sort of self-conscious about potentially having roots?

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. I think because I did have such dark hair, and my grey hair coming in was really grey, and it was becoming more prominent. It was very obvious roots as well. 

So, I did, for my 30th birthday, I did go blonde. Went and got professionally bleached, and thought that would at least give me that little bit more time in between dyeing, and the upkeep of it. But I never felt like that was me. I had dark hair, so going blonde, it just never felt right, and it never felt like it was me.

Helen: So how long did you have the blonde for?

Sarah: Oh, that is a good question. I think probably almost, not quite a year. It was expensive to get it done. And again, time consuming. I can remember spending most of a day in the hairdresser. And I think I must have had it done I feel like three times. So, I think I did it every couple of months three times. 

So, we probably were looking at it nine months-ish that I was blonde. And then I was like, nah, I need to go back to dark. So, I went back and I got, back to dark, sort of balayage, slightly lighter on the top and then darker on the bottom. But, yeah, back to dark. 

And then back to having to box dye in between hairdressing appointments, and back to that fatigue of trying to work out how often, and when you have to do the maintenance.

Helen: When did you decide to go grey?

Sarah: Well, I've tried a few times over those two decades I suppose. But it was Lockdown for me that it kind of forced my hand into it. I don't know if you remember, Helen. But I couldn't get any box dye in the supermarket.

Or there was only like wacky purple colours of box dye that I couldn't have tried to cover up my grey because it would've just meant I had a purple stripe, rather than a white stripe on my parting. 

The last time that I got my hair dyed, I went to the hairdresser on the 1st of February, 2020. So, it was actually not that long before we went into Lockdown, so maybe like a month. I stocked up on root spray and all of that. And I kept my roots at bay for maybe, oh, a good-few months. I was just covering it up. 

And then I think it was probably about four months into that, that I was like, I think I'm doing this, and if I'm doing it, then I'm gonna do it. So, there was a little bit of apprehension of, am I just going to let it go? Let myself go, which is a phrase, that I detest now. But at the time, it really did feel daunting, and that that was the case. And it was just such an amazing experience. I loved it.

Helen: So how did you feel about the, white roots gradually getting longer and longer?

Sarah: So, at the beginning, I hated it. And like I say, I covered it up, but then I think the more and more that I went on, and the more that I was on, I mean, we're still all on Zoom calls, and all in the virtual world. So I wasn't really seeing that many people in real life, but sometimes on a screen it's,even more obvious I think.

So, people were commenting on it, but it was all really positive comments, which surprised me. And I think that's something that more people need to hear, and should know that actually that nobody was unsupportive. Everyone spoke about how different it looked, and how excellent it looked.

And I actually, I was having a conversation just yesterday with a woman at an event who was saying, I was talking about you, during Lockdown, when you had that beautiful white crown. It was just amazing. It was a brilliant experience.

I started an Instagram page called @SilverSazzle. It wasn't looking to try and become an influencer, or get followers, or anything like that. It was actually more of a place for me to document my journey. 'cause I think sometimes it can feel like your hair isn't growing at all, when you're going through the difficulties.

And, I think that that's the thing, isn't it? It's so easy once we got to a stage where I could have got a box dye, or I could have gone to the hairdressers, there was moments of, should I? should I just go and get my hair back to being dark? My hair is dark, that's my hair. But I managed to not. 

So, documenting it I think on Instagram really helped me to see the progress that I was making. And also, to find a whole community and host of other Silver Sisters out there that are at different stages of the growth journey. Doing it different ways, different ages, different styles. 

And that was so inspirational. And I think knowing that there was so many people all over the World also doing it. I've got a couple of women that I'm connected with now, who are actually in the States, who it's almost the same anniversary that we've got.

So, we're now at five years of being dye free and, yeah, it's really nice. I would never have connected with those women had it not been for growing my hair out, just becoming myself. 

Helen: Before we came on, you and I were both talking about how we kind of were quite impatient.

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: In later in the latest stages, after we'd been doing it for like nine months a year, for dye to just be gone.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, I think that once you get over the, yeah, like I said, I think it's the nine-month period. Once, you've got to nine months, it looks pretty intentional, but then at the ends I still had dyed hair at the bottom. And so, I every time I would go to the hairdresser, I would get my hair a little bit shorter than I had the last time, in the hope that maybe it would finish it off. 

But now I actually kind of miss those little, the dyed tips that I had. I got so many compliments, so many people came up to me. I mean, I get a lot of compliments on my hair now, more so than I ever did when I dyed my hair. 

But I do think in that stage where I had just maybe an inch and a half, two inches of dye on the bottom. I had so many people come to be like, where did you get your hair done? What did you do with your hair? It's incredible. 

And I'm like, do you know? I literally did nothing, I let it grow, and this is what it looks like. And I think that's, quite incredible.

Helen: A couple of questions for you then. You mentioned you had a couple of earlier attempts, at going grey.

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: How did they work out? What happened?

Sarah: I feel like the most I ever got to before was about the four-month mark. And I always felt like there was a wedding I was going to, or a big meeting, and I just felt like I would have to explain myself, I guess. And so, I chickened out, and dyed my hair.

Because I feel like there's pressure from society that that's what you ought to do.  Now, hindsight is wonderful, it's also part of ageing, I suppose. Getting older and having more wisdom. I wouldn't do that. So, I was 35 when I started my, final grow out journey, which is still pretty young

Helen: Yeah.

 Sarah: for somebody with grey hair.

Although I was talking to somebody yesterday about it and saying, I don't know when I'll stop being a young person with grey hair, and just be a person with grey hair. Like, I don't know what age that is. I said, I think, you know, 35 is quite a young person to have grey hair.

 and I'm now 40, nearly 41. Am I still a young person with grey hair, or is it just my hair?

Helen: I think you're not a young person to have naturally grey hair. But you're probably still unusual to have grey hair at your age, because most people your age dye it.

Sarah: Yes. Yeah, I would agree. And I think that that is really interesting as well, because the overarching message that I'd like to get to people is, they're hiding themselves. 

So, I think, again, we were talking before we started recording, and I think that period of me discovering who I am in my twenties and my early thirties, I was covering up who I really am a lot of the time. 

And I don't wanna get too philosophical about my hair, but like, it just one part of who I am that I was masking and hiding, and letting society dictate to me, or make me feel a certain way. That I should be doing something that I never really even thought about whether I wanted to do it or not. I just did it because that's what I should do.

It's amazing the growth journey that I went on. It was almost two years, just under two years that it took me to grow my hair out fully. It was a transformation not only in my hair, but in my health and fitness, in my self-confidence, in like lots of things. 

And that wasn't solely to do with my hair. But it definitely helped that I was being, and it sounds a little bit cheesy, but like being my true, authentic self. Not hiding myself.

Helen: You have a very public facing job. I'm guessing that most days you're in meetings with other people. And I know a lot of women are probably scared of going grey, because they think they'll be judged by other people, and have negativity from other people. Has that been your experience?

Sarah: So, no. Like I said, when I was growing my hair out, I never experienced any negativity. 

I do think women that I speak to tell me how brave I am for going grey, and that is, I guess, a compliment, but also infuriating. 'cause I literally just didn't do anything. I just let my hair grow. 

I think it is, people are scared of what it might look like. So, a lot of people I think also say, your hair is a beautiful colour, but mine it wouldn't come in like that. And I'm like, I've never seen two women with grey silver hair that look the same. Their hair is never the same. 

My hair isn't the same as it was when it started growing in five years ago. And that's part of the excitement, and the enjoyment of it, I think. I've still got quite a lot of dark hair around the back of my head. But that changes a little bit. 

I would encourage everyone to go for it. And I think there are a lot more people doing it now. And so therefore that awkward conversation that I thought I was gonna have to have of, oh, I'm actually growing my hair out.

Or I felt like I had to overcompensate by styling myself more fancy, or putting on more make-up, or showing that I was making an effort so that it was obvious that my hair was not dyed intentionally. Or root spray or all of these things that we do to mask it. 

I just think we need to do our best to break down any stigma that goes with it, and people shouldn't have to explain themselves.

Helen: I think Lockdown was quite a watershed moment, because before that it was quite rare to go grey young. I think in Lockdown you kind of had to step off the hamster wheel, on many levels, and hair was just one of them. 

It meant you started questioning things that you were just doing automatically as a habit. And so now you just see more women who are grey.

Sarah: Absolutely. And some of them are not even naturally grey. Some, young women are, going to the hairdresser and getting their hair dyed grey. I'm all for that.

Helen: Do you think your style has changed at all since you've gone grey in terms of the clothes you wear, and that kind of thing?

Sarah: Not particularly. No. I do think, like I said, I got a good bit healthier, and fitter, and so, my body shape kind of changed, at the same time as my hair growth journey was happening. 

I did get a personal stylist, and she did my colours for me. I was quite self-conscious that I wasn't wearing the right colours. Because like I said earlier, I used to wear really bold colours, that would contrast with my dark hair. 

So, then I was like, is this making me look washed out? Or, all of that sort of stuff with grey hair. But no, I'm still wearing bold, bright yellow most of the time.

Helen: Which is interesting 'cause I cannot wear yellow. Yellow, and black, and orange are the colours that are just, I look so ill.

Sarah: When the stylist did my colours for me, yellow is not my like number one colour. But it's just my favourite, and it brings me so much joy. So, that's why I wear it now more and more. 

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what hints and tips would you have for them?

Sarah: I wish I had documented it more than I did. I love my Silver_Sazzle Instagram page. It's great. I would post the first of every month because my hair goes dyed on the 1st of February. So, the first of every month, I do like a progress report.

But I now wish I had done more in between. And I'd taken more pictures, or even videos of the back of my head, and things like that, that I could see the progress happening, and remember it a bit better. Because you're never gonna get that time back, and it is a journey.

I guess my one regret is not taking as many photographs throughout the journey as I wish I had. So, I would say my biggest tip is document it so that you can see how far you've come along the journey. Do it.

Helen: I think one of the things when your roots start to come through, it feels like your hair is growing really, really fast. When you start growing it out, it feels so slow. 

Sarah: It does.

Helen: Some months it feels like it's gone nowhere.

Sarah: Yeah, but it has, right? Every month it did look totally different, you know. Yeah, it's happening. And then before you know it, you're at 22 months, and you've got fully natural hair.

Helen: And all that time, and money back.

Sarah: Yeah. Definitely, and even just the brain space that I was talking about of trying to work out. And then that's also not just when am I gonna dye my hair? It's also the working out when can you have the time to go to the hairdresser to do all of, yeah. 

Doing this Podcast has made me think back on all of that again and go, yeah, actually I'm saving so much time, and so much money, by being more myself.

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: It's a win, win, win.

Helen: Yeah, and for me, my hair is in much better condition as well, so

Sarah: Yeah,

Helen: what's not to like.

Sarah: Exactly.

Helen: Well, brilliant. Thanks so much for chatting to me. You've been a great guest. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Sarah: Thanks.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.