Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Tracey Tait. She's a marketing coach, trainer and consultant helping business owners do better marketing so they can create the business they love. She also has a menopause training company, and when she's not at work, she has an allotment and she's loving learning more about growing.

Good morning, Tracey. How are you?

Tracey: Good morning. It is lovely to chat with you, Helen. It is always weird when you hear your own introduction, isn't it?

I'm a strawberry delivery woman to family at the minute.

Helen: Oh, cool. Anyway, onto the subject of grey hair.

Tracey: Why we're here.

Helen: indeed, I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Tracey: Oh, very thick, very dark. My hair was very dark. And then, it went bizarrely quite blonde in the summer. It was like natural sun-kissed highlights. So yes, I used to have varying hair colours when I was younger, naturally. It was like really quite strange. 

I suppose like a lot of young children, their hair does change colour, and then in the sunshine, playing out a lot, and in the woods and so Mother Nature would work her magic with her sunlight on my hair and make me go blonde.

Helen: And was it long or short?

Tracey: It was longer then. And I can remember though deciding to have it cut short 'cause it was just annoying, being really thick, taking forever to dry. You know, back in the days where you had your bath on a Sunday and washed your hair. Sitting in front of the fire, drying the hair, and then going to bed with damp hair, memories of that. 

I got it cut short. And I loved it 'cause it was great. It was just like, oh, it's so easy to keep in, manage, you know, just want to play out and not have to tie anything up. Until one day someone mistook me for a wee boy. Because I had short hair and I had shorts and my t-shirt on and was just, you know, running around. And that stopped me in the tracks. So, I wanted to grow my hair longer after that.

So, it's been all various lengths, over, over the time.

Helen: Did you experiment with dyeing it when you were in your teens?

Tracey: I used Sun In. So, if you can remember, like Sun In back in the day. My friend, bless her, she's no longer with us, Kirsten. She had the most gorgeous, gorgeous brown, chocolate brown hair. But she always wanted to be blonde.

It's funny when it comes to hair, I think we always got what we don't have. You know, people with thick hair want fine hair and vice versa. So, she'd heard about Sun In, to go blonde. So, it kind of blessed her, made her a bit more orangey, than blonde. But then it was like, oh, well I'm lighter brown, maybe I'll try it. So, I kinda went a lighter orange.

Then there was temporary like dyes, where it maybe like last sort of three or four washes. I would dabble with them when I was a teenager, sort of like sort of 16 to 19. It wasn't until I was like older, and working, and earning money, that I went to the hairdressers to get it dyed officially and properly.

Helen: When did you find your first grey hair?

Tracey: You've taken me right back to that. I can remember I was in the bathroom looking in our round mirror on the window-ledge. And I was either 28 or 29, can't quite specifically remember the age, but I knew it was below 30. 

And Helen, when I saw it, it was sitting upright in the middle of my fringe, like a little antenna just there. And I swear to goodness, I'm sure it waved at me. I'm sure it gave a little wave, and a little nod, and it went, yeah, I'm here. You've got your grey hair. 

Just was sticking sort of straight up, and it was wiry, and horrible. And I thought, my goodness, this is going to be strong enough and capable enough to tune in to like radio stations. You know, and at the time it was massive fan, like Radio two and Terry Wogan. And I thought, well, if I could do that, that's a pretty good reason to keep grey hair, isn't it? 

But, yeah, I can just remember standing in the bathroom, and looking in the mirror and like going, what do I do with you? And I didn't pull it out. I didn't, I just kept it there. 

But I remember going into work in the morning and thinking, everyone's gonna be looking at this antenna that's sticking outta the middle of my fringe. No one did. Not one person went do you know that you've got an aerial sticking out of your head and it's grey? Nobody, nobody mentioned it.

Helen: Were you dyeing your hair at the time?

Tracey: Yes. Yeah. I was dyeing my hair at the time, so I was partly annoyed because I thought, you know, I'm gonna all this effort and cost. Going to the hairdressers getting my highlights, my lowlights, and this rogue hair has managed to duck and dive past, the dye that the hairdressers meticulously, putting on.

At that time actually, Helen, it was a cap. The rubber cap got put on and the crochet hook. When I think back now, and then she put the colour over the top. But I remember being really annoyed at this grey hair because I thought, you've avoided the hairdresser's crochet hook, and being splatted with chemicals. How very dare you? So yeah, that grey hair had attitude. I must admit it was a fighter.

Helen: And how did you feel about it?

Tracey: The grey hair? It was the shock really. It was kind of like, you know, oh, I'm not even 30. Even though in my family, my Nana bless her, she went completely grey in her twenties, completely and utterly grey. And then my Uncle, her son, he went grey early as well. 

So, for me it was like going, well, that's a surprise. I've managed to get to nearly 30. And then I thought, oh my goodness, is that it? Are they gonna just like start sprouting, you know, overnight? Are they gonna invade my eyebrows? Is it gonna be like everywhere. I'm gonna go to bed, and every day there's gonna be a development of greyage

But after that it was just kind of like, ah, get on with it. It’s just hair at the end of the day. So, it was fine. It was alright.

Helen: Obviously you were dyeing your hair at the time.

Tracey: Yes. Yeah.

Helen: How long did you keep dye it for?

Tracey: Oh, my goodness. Do you know I have only recently stopped getting it dyed.

I did actually have a few false starts of embracing the grey. When I was a mum, so I was like 34 when I became a mum. And it was just like, oh, do you know, just keep your life simple. You know, you got a little baby, a little toddler, you know, things are gonna be busy, so just like leave it for a while.

And it was just easier not to be bothering about dyeing hair, 

Helen: Yeah.

Tracey: or thinking about highlights, and booking appointments, and all that stuff. So, I thought then that's it. I'm going to, you know, embrace my grey. And I think I kind of got to maybe about, I dunno, three, four inches of grey on the top of my head. And I still had long hair, I had shoulder length hair. And I thought, yeah, I'm gonna do this. 

And then just one day in a moment of weakness, and I thought, oh, I'm not quite ready. Not quite ready. So, I was probably about, you know, sort of 35 when I went kind of back into to dyeing.

And then once I was kind of in that routine. My hair grows at the rate of knots. So, I was getting my hair highlighted, and dyed, and tweaked, and prodded probably every six to eight weeks. I say that out loud. 

And I suppose in hindsight, there's only ever gonna be perhaps two phases of my life that I know what my hair genuine like colour was, was when I was like a child. You know, so before I started then dabbling with Sun In, and the likes. 

And then now that you know I'm looking to embrace the grey, and this will be the genuine hair colour of Tracy Tait, you know, from the age 56, onwards. I know I'm still gonna have wobbles though Helen. I think I'm gonna like, you know, have days where I go, oh, oh, can I do this? Can I do this? Is this really, really me? 

You know, because I used to joke and say, yeah, I've gone blonde 'cause blondes have more fun. And I'm thinking it doesn't matter what hair colour you are, you know. Embrace life and find the giggles, the chuckles, and, jump in the puddles if it's been raining kind of approach to life.

But yeah, I'm in that phase where, yeah, let's just embrace this part of me and where I am. Why the heck not?

Helen: So, what was the trigger for going grey this time?

Tracey: Oh, there was a few triggers, Helen, to be very, very honest with you. I think it was the faff, the hassle. The cost as well. 

Then also like thinking, well, what am I actually putting on my hair? Which then ultimately could end up in my body. Since sort of menopause and stuff, there's been a lot of pondering, and thinking about, oh, what am I putting into my poor body and expecting to feel okay. So, there's an element of that as well.

But also, the fun aspect, and the challenge of, you know, what is the silver fox in me going to like, look like? I mean, it's probably more salt and pepper, but I think it's just, yeah, it's a chapter of my life, you know? Let's just see, let's just see. Let's just see.

Helen: How did you do the grow out? Did you just go cold turkey?

Tracey: Yeah. Cold turkey completely. Actually, I did start having conversations at the hairdressers and saying, you know, I've been kinda coming, I mean, getting highlights, lowlights, all that kinda like stuff, you know. But then within a few weeks of actually having it done. It was like the grey hair was just like, nah, we are not putting up with this, we are coming back with a vengeance. 

So, the colour wasn't, taking to my hair as well. So, what was like a permanent colour, was actually becoming semi-permanent. Because my hair obviously as you get grey changes, doesn't it? It doesn't take on board the colours as well. 

And so, I'd be looking at my hair, and I'd be like, oh, well I only had it done two, three weeks ago. And I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, well, this bit at the top of my head is shimmering. It's got the little sort of silver bits to it, not the blonde or the browns that I'd had added. 

And also, I thought, well, it kind of looks quite blending in with how my hair's like looking anyway. And so, I said, to the hairdresser, I'm thinking of embracing this, what can I do to not just look like I've got like a grey swimming cap on, and then I'm sort of like blondie brownie for the rest?

She made like a few suggestions. So, we did that for a while. And then I just thought, oh, do you know it's more faff than it's worth? Just embrace it. Just embrace it. Because every time I go back, she went your colour's looking well. And I'm thinking, yeah, it's without being coloured my hair looks like my hair.

So even like the last time, when I was in just for a trim ,and I just said to her, we're just going for cut and blow dries from now on. And she went absolutely smashing. And she says, and you know, if you ever need any sort of, you know, like help if you're kinda sort of struggling to kinda grow it out. Or you want to like look at lifting it, she goes, yeah, we'll have that chat.

But at the moment, it's being embraced 

Helen: So, did you keep it the same length the whole way through your grow out?

Tracey: Yeah, I mean, I've maybe gone to the hairdressers and get like an inch sort of taken off. There was a part of me a few weeks ago where I just thought, oh, I'll just get it cut. You know, really short. But I've done phases like that in the past, where I'm like, had it really long, like longer than I have it now. Sort of shoulder length way, way longer. 

And then just gone zoot. You know, kinda like old Sindy when her hair used to be able to go like long and short. And I loved it to begin with. But because my hair is so thick, when it kind of grows out, it just kinda looks like a big sort of fuzzy microphone.

You know, honestly, it grows out the way, it's a podcast I'm trying to explain, but my hair would kind of just go outwards rather than down the side of my face. It would only go down once it got to a certain length. And I hated that phase where it kinda of like stuck out at the side of my ears.

So, I've just kept it shoulder length. And I think I'll just probably keep it shoulder length as I sort of transform from the dyed hair to the silver fox that is lurking within I think. I'm trying, I'm crossing my fingers here as well. My mission should I choose to accept it.

Helen: So, you've just finished your grow out then?

Tracey: No, it's still actually growing. It's still growing out. It's still growing out. Because a lot of the, colour that I had done was, sort of like blonde, like very sort of pale

Helen: Yeah.

Tracey: blonde, with some like light brown. So, there's quite a lot like sort of still in there. That's the thing when I look at my hair and I'm like thinking, well, you've been paying, you've been going in all this time sitting, getting all these little bits of colour put in your hair, when actually it looks quite similar to your grey.

Helen: You certainly don't have a hard line between the dyed and the undyed.

Tracey: it doesn't seem to. You can sort of see like little bits of like blonde or the brown where the highlights have been put in.

What I find really weird, and I dunno about yourself as well, because I know one of the thing about when you're hair colour is changing, it seems like, you know, the back of your hair, it stays the darkest for like longer. 

So, it's like if I ever do tie my hair up, which I do quite often, so I'm like lovely sort of silvery foxy on the top. And then I have this like sort of like brown ponytail, you know, my hair's got a split personality. 

So, it's kind like, yeah, the top of me is embracing it. And the back of my hair, because obviously it's growing out really isn't it, it's like clinging on for dear life to the darker roots of my hair. So, I just find that quite interesting. There's all this darkage going on, and when will that kind of all mingle together? 

But yeah, time will tell, I guess. 

Helen: Yeah, mine's very similar. Mine's very white at the front and underneath, but the back's not so much. I quite often have my hair plaited when I go to the gym, and I literally have a stripy plait.

Tracey: Yeah.

Helen: A question about the condition of your hair then. 

Tracey: Yes.

Helen: Is it any better or worse since you let it go grey?

Tracey: I would say it's much better, since I've gone grey. But last year I started using different haircare products as well. So, I started to use products that had like no harsh chemicals. And I also was actually washing my hair less often than I had been. So, my hair's in a better condition because of that.

But when, I kinda like feel my fringe, it does feel healthier than the parts of my hair that are still coloured. So, it is quite interesting that as well. 

But even when I was like younger, the amount of times that I went would sit in the hairdressers, you know, back in the day with a cap, and the crochet, and your head, hurting for days afterwards to look nice. And then the foils and, and all this, and you think, oh my goodness, my poor hair, I'm putting it through a chemical rigmarole.

That's such a bizarre thing to kinda do, for me anyway. I think it's like when I look back, what was I doing to my hair? But no, it's definitely feels that the areas that are undyed now much better.

Helen: Would you say your style has changed in terms of the colours you wear, and the makeup that you wear since you've got more silver?

Tracey: That hasn't been the influence in the decision and changes of colours that I wear. What has massively influenced me has been coming out of menopause. When I felt just like I wanted to hide away under darks and navies. 

And it was like kinda coming outta that. Where I started to feel like myself again, I started to have the energy, confidence that fun part of Tracy was rediscovered again. So, I'm now really embracing, you know, brighter colours in what I'll wear.

In terms of makeup. I very, very, very rarely wear makeup. I'm actually time recording, I'm going to a networking event in Newcastle this afternoon. So, I'll have a little bit on, and when I see a little bit, it'll be probably mascara. That'll be it. 

Has my makeup changed? Helen, I'll be very, very honest with you. It's been pretty much the same for like donkey's ages. You know, when I do wear it. There's like a little bit of foundation because I'm quite ruddy in my complexion. Take after my Nana, and my Mum for that. It’s like Harper Scot trait in the family. 

So, when I do wear makeup just to hide those little reddy bits. And my blusher has been the same loyal blusher for probably about five years now. There's been no experimentation. Your listener’s probably gonna be thinking she's stuck in a time warp, bless her. She's stuck in a time warp. She needs to pop into John Lewis or Fenwick in Newcastle, get a do, get a makeover. 

But I'm very happy with that approach to makeup, and embracing different colours in terms of like the clothes that I wear, and jewellery and what have you.

Helen: I think it's really interesting that in the menopause you were hiding in the navies and the blacks, and now that you're feeling happier and more energetic.

Tracey: Yeah, the menopause for me was like a dark time. Wasn't an easy episode in my life at all. Not to say that every woman will go through a dark, difficult menopause. Absolutely not the case. 100% not the case. 

But for me it was just, I just didn't, you know, have the energy to think about colour. To get excited about colour. And so, you know, getting up in the morning it was like the trackie bottoms and a sweatshirt. And, if I went out it was like, those jeans and, you know, that top. Didn't want to like, think about anything. 'cause that was energy, effort.

I didn't want people to notice me. Just wanted to hide, and sort of dark colours were my way, my uniform really of doing that at that time. So that's how that worked for me. But I am loving the fun, colourful part of me that's now back in the room.

Helen: Did your grow out coincide with the menopause?

Tracey: No, not at all. My menopause actually started quite early. So I was 43, 44 when symptoms started. And I didn't know at the time that's what they were. Perimenopause was a phrase I'd never even heard of until, I did Google, I'm guilty, hands up. I did a lot of Googling. Chatting to friends and stuff as well about their experiences.

I think for me it was probably because I wasn't feeling like myself, that keeping on colouring my hair was some tiny part of me trying to keep hold of me, if that makes sense. You know, going to the hairdressers and just kinda giving me that lift. So that I looked presentable for some reason, I want to use that word, just to try and help me function and battle through what it was.

Because at the time I was like, you know, the marketing business was just kinda taking off. And so, at that early stage, you're trying to attract clients. You're trying to look, you know, professional and trustworthy, and all that. And so, while I was behind the scenes, battling the menopause symptoms that I had, the hair colour was like a mask.

You know, it's like, well, if my hair looks okay, it's easier for me to go on a Zoom call, and pretend that everything's okay. It doesn't matter that I'm wearing a black top, or a navy top, or a dark purple top, because the face and the hair look, in the room. 

Which is a strange kinda place to put yourself as a woman. But that was where I was at the time. And for me, it was keep getting the haircut. Keep getting the hair coloured. It's kinda helping you through where you're at, at this moment in time with your perimenopause.

Helen: What are you doing to age healthily, if anything?

Tracey: Oh, well, I'm allotmenting. It's a lot of digging, a lot of being outside A lot of drinking water now. More me time. More sort of self-care. More being conscious and aware of what I'm putting into my body, the expectations that I have of my body.

The love that I have for my own body now, as well, is very different to you know, my twenties and thirties. Where it was like, oh, a hundred miles an hour. Everything was a hundred miles an hour. 

Less people pleasing, less expectations. Slowing down and doing more of what genuinely lights me up, brings me joy, and helps me to engage in this crazy journey that we call life.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. 

Tracey: Yes.

Helen: If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, 

Tracey: Yes.

Helen: what advice and tips would you have for them?

Tracey: Oh, I would say do it. But be prepared for those possible unexpected challenges that when it comes in, it might not be the grey, the silver that you want it to be. Mine, it's a bit like sort of salt and peppery, but I'm learning to embrace that. 

When I thought I would go grey, I thought I would be like, you know, as glamorous as Helen Mirren. I thought I'd be like, the Helen Mirren of Newcastle when my grey finally comes in.

And I think also as well, there will be wobbles. There'll be times when you like go, oh, I'm just gonna go back to the hairdressers and start again and just get it all like coloured. 

But it's a part of who you are. It's an okay part of whatever you are in your life to kinda go grey. It's how nature intended you to be. Whether it's your twenties, thirties, forties, or fifties.

But in the same phase. I think if it's you know, not right for you to embrace that, then that's okay as well. 'cause you're still doing awesome. You're still being the best woman that I hope you can be, and be happy at the same time as well.

But for me, I'm excited to embrace it. Helen. Which is something I never really thought I would be. But I'm like, do you know what I'm 56. It's a gift not given to everyone. And yeah, let's embrace this chapter, let's see what it brings.

Helen: Cool. Well, thanks so much. You've been a brilliant guest and I'm gonna say thank you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.