Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Allison Taylor, a creative, energetic, retired home economics teacher whose second career has been with Forever Living since 2006. Passionate about living well. She loves sharing her wellbeing tips with those who are ready to listen. Good afternoon, Allison. How are you?

Alison: I am very well indeed. Thank you, Helen. Yeah, I've done my swim and I've had coffee with a friend, so life's good.

Helen: Ah. I've been for a run

Alison: How far do you run normally?

Helen: Anywhere between four and six miles.

Alison: Oh, fabulous. That's a good distance.

Helen: Yeah. But I've done it since I'm my teens, so.

I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Alison: Oh, my hair was dead straight. A mid brown. Okay. But I think there's an interesting story there that my Mum really wanted me to have curly hair. And so, I still can picture the cupboard where the rag curls were kept, all right.

So, I had rag curls, I had rollers, and when my Father was on night duty, he was a fireman. She would perm my hair, and so I had forced curly hair and it dead straight for a large number of years. Yep.

Helen: So, actually perm it with perming solution?

Alison: Yep. I can still remember the smell. Absolutely. Yes. Yep.

Helen: Wow. And how old were you when she was doing that?

Alison: I'm trying to think when she started curling it. Rag curls probably from about the age of five or six. I've got some pictures of me with dead straight hair, and the little fringe, and the centre parting. And I was probably about five or six then.

I really can't remember Helen to be honest. But I know that my sister did have curly hair and I didn't. Mum wanted me to have, in the 1950s, girls had curly hair.

Helen: Did she do that all the way through your teens?

Alison: Yep. When I was 15, I rebelled and said, no, I'm having straight hair. That's it. 

We had many a hair discussion because I also had very long hair. Remember it being plaited. Yeah, just dead straight and a lovely long plait down the centre back. Or sometimes two little bunches, and that sort of thing.

Then when my sister was born, I remember being taken to a very, very posh hairdresser in Birmingham. And, it all being cut off because my Mum was looking after my younger sister. And she couldn't plait my hair as well. From that day on, it was then short. 

I think probably I experienced quite a few hair traumas at the hands of my Mum, which I've never really given much thought to, but they were there. Yeah.

Helen: Not really heard of anyone else where their mum living through their daughter's hair. But is it fascinating. 

So, did you dye your hair at all on your teens?

Alison: Not in my teens, no. I don't think I started to dye my hair until I was probably in my mid-twenties. 

I started teaching. My first teaching job was down in Surrey, and there was a hairdresser there that had student hairdressing models. So, we would go along and then the students would be cutting our hair. And of course, you got a very, very good cut. And as a newly qualified teacher, that was a really lovely saving. 

And I can still remember a girl who had her hair done, a lovely bob, but she had a purple stripe, a horizontal purple stripe. Which looked absolutely stunning. And I think that sort of gave me the idea that I could probably do something more with my hair.

Helen: So what colour was your hair dyed?

Alison: I always went through the reds. So, I was Henna. I absolutely loved having Henna. I loved the process. I loved the smell, and I loved the fact that it was natural. So, I Hennaed my hair probably up until my forties.

Helen: When did you find your first grey hair? Can you remember that?

Alison: No, I really can't. It really is lost in the midst of time. So, whether it's because I was so busy and just was regularly having my hair coloured. I remember I transferred from Henna, I suppose, when the children were growing up a little bit and, you know, money was getting a bit tighter.

So, I used to have the little home dyes. Can't even remember the name of the brand. But I can remember using that, colouring it myself on a Sunday morning, or something like that, with a big plastic bag around it.

And that was probably to disguise the greys, or just to keep up the purple image. I'm not too sure. 

Helen: When did you decide to stop dyeing it? 

Alison: I think when the hairdresser suggested, and I've had the same hairdressers for a long number of years, and he suggested I could do some different colours. And I just thought, do you know what? I'm quite happy with it being grey. 

I could see the greys coming through, and I just thought, no. I don't want to go through that phase of always having to look at what colours I'm doing, and the roots growing out.

So, I just thought, no, I'm just going to let it become natural. Yep. So, I just slowly stopped doing my purple Sunday morning dyes.

Helen: How old were you then?

Alison: I was probably, sort of fifties, late fifties.

Helen: But it was well before Lockdown?

Alison: Oh gosh, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've been grey, I would think for at least 20 years. Yeah.

Helen: And you must have felt comfortable with it, having left it for that long?

Alison: Yes. Oh yeah. Absolutely. I love the fact that it's got different shades. It's so easy to look after, having short hair as well, and it just works. Yeah. 

And it compliments, I dunno whether you've ever had colour analysis? But I had my colours done. And I'm teaching textiles. I had them done actually when I was pregnant, so over 40 years ago now.

And, found out that I was a Winter. And so, I found what colours work for me, and grey hair works with those colours. So, and wearing silver jewellery, so it just sort of ties in. I really just don't think about it anymore. It's just me.

Helen: And you're definitely not fading into the background because you're wearing a bright pink top. 

Alison: I am.

Helen: Obviously, my listeners can't see that. But do you like bright colours?

Alison: Yeah, there's certain colours that, I just feel you shouldn't wear boring, beige. I think life is too short to go beige. 

And it's sort of people like Prue Leith, with their wonderful fancy glasses on and their colourful jewellery, and I'm going, do you know what? I really like that, you know, I don't feel we should be fading into the background as older women.

Helen: I did have my colours done in my twenties. I'm a Summer, hence the blue. Do love a bit of blue.

Alison: Yes. 

Helen: And I have blue eyes as well, so.

Alison: Ah, yes. Yeah, yeah. 

Helen: How do you feel about the age that you are?

Alison: I absolutely love it. I just feel there's a real freedom, to being the age where you can just be yourself. You don't have to worry too much about society's expectations.

Helen: And as you age, what are your ambitions?

Alison: To keep as healthy as I can, to keep as fit as I can. I'd like to get to David Attenborough's sort of age, and still be using my brain, and still being active, and still contributing.

Helen: What are you doing to build for that?

Alison: It's very much the health pillars. So, I very much eat fresh, seasonal, natural. My subject was teaching home economics. So cooking, using sort of fresh seasonal ingredients is part of my DNA. 

I very much love the exercise. I love to go and exercise. Swim first thing in the morning, or go to the gym, go to yoga. I'll keep that up, and I'll do that three or four times a week.

Sleep. I'm,not a late person. I can't burn the candle at both ends, so, you know, sort of 10 o'clock, getting my good night's sleep. And then fresh air, and keeping my brain active doing things, meeting new people. 

I love all of those. And keeping it holistic and, you know, yeah a glass of wine, absolutely. And of course, obviously with Forever Living, I drink my shot of aloe every morning as well.

Helen: That's similar to me. So, my Mum is 89, and she lives independently, and I'm like, I wanna be her.

Alison: Yes.

Helen: So, what do I need to do to build for that? So, I run, obviously. Do yoga, go to the gym a couple of times a week, and my ambitions to deadlift my body weight and

Alison: Oh wow.

Helen: run a 25-minute Parkrun. And I'm 60 it's like there's no reason why that should be beyond me.

Alison: Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah, if you're doing that steady running. Absolutely. 

Helen: Mum took up tap dancing in her 60s

Alison: oh, wow.

Helen: not planning on doing that.

Alison: I always said that when I retired from teaching that I would learn to play the saxophone.

Helen: Uh-huh.

Alison: Bearing in mind that I retired from teaching 15 years ago. So, I mentioned this to a friend and she said, I've got a saxophone in the loft. And I'm going, oh, dear, somebody's calling my bluff. So, I got said saxophone.

I found my, daughter's old music teacher, we'd still been in touch. And I knew she taught both saxophone, flute, and piano. And said, can I bring it round? What do you think? And we agreed that it needed a little service, so I paid to get it serviced. And I started some lessons. 

And Helen, I found it was just too heavy. I've broken both wrists, one before COVID and one after COVID. And it was just uncomfortable. So disappointed. And I just decided no.

And again, that's one of the things that you can do as ageing, isn't it? You might have these ambitions and try these things, but you also have got the common sense enough to say no, it's not working. I need to step away from that. No shame in it. I gave it a try. 

Should I have tried it sort of 20 years earlier? Probably. And it probably would've had, you know, more success. Should I try a flute another time? If I find the time, yes, perhaps I will. So yeah, it is about sort of just literally keeping the brain going and trying new things.

Helen: Yeah, it's interesting we talk about limitations. So, the reason that I'm like saying I definitely wouldn't do tap dancing, is I do have some mild osteoarthritis in one of my feet.

Alison: Yeah.

Helen: So, it's like I know that that would just aggravate that. Whereas with the level of exercise that I do, it's fine.

Alison: Yes.

Helen: So, you do sometimes have to accept that there are some things that change as you get older, 

Alison: Yes.

Helen: but many that don't have to.

Alison: Yes, absolutely. And it is about, as you're saying with the dead lifting, it's about knowing that if you do some exercises, and the running, you are still maintaining your body functions at the best level that you possibly can, and therefore they're not going in decline. 

My daughter, think she's going to put us in for that program Race across the World. And I'm going, oh dear. Right. Okay, Fiona, alright. We'll go in for that, and then hope they don't pick us. 

Not that I don't want the adventure, but the thought of sitting on a coach for 15 or 16 hours on some of those long journeys they do. I know my back will find it really, really struggling, you know, and hips and knees will start to ache. So yes, I'm aware of my limitations. 

But like swimming, like yoga, yes, I will always do some stretches and I've got a few weights at home that I will try and do. It's about maintaining what I've got and not letting that go into decline.

Helen: Okay. A very different question now. You've been grey for quite a long time. Have you noticed the attitude towards women with grey hair changing at all over that time?

Alison: Yes. It became very, very fashionable, didn't it? You saw all these models that were actually having their hair dyed grey. And I must admit, I thought that was quite pretentious, and I'm going really, who came up with that idea? So, I think that sort of changed things.

And quite a few friends, 'cause you mentioned COVID, quite a few friends during COVID definitely changed their habits. And accepted that they couldn't get to the hairdressers, they couldn't get it dyed, and they were going to go grey. And that was refreshing. So, there was an Air of positivity, around being grey, and an acceptance. And I thought that was really rather refreshing.

Helen: And had you not really seen that before Lockdown?

Alison: No, no, I think it had been very much, oh, you know, grey is something to be ashamed of, and grey is something to hide and disguise.

Helen: I am one of the Lockdown babies with grey hair. I dyed mine until then. I had talked about it for a couple of years beforehand, but my Hairdresser and my Husband, neither of them were particularly keen on the idea. Then lockdown happened and it was like, oh, it's a sign. I'll not be colouring my hair.

Alison: Yes, yes. Yeah. And I think because you are naturally, you know, much blonder, and I think the greys can merge with a fairer hair. So, I think it becomes less of a shock. 

One of the things that I find quite saddening is women, and I network with a lot of business women, who've got really quite sharply dark hair. And you know it's not natural. And you can see occasionally the sort of the roots coming out, although they keep it very well maintained, but it's just too harsh now. 

And you just wish a hairdresser would allow them to sort of step back, and have a really good, honest look at whether that severe colour really works for their complexion now. And whether something a little bit softer, possibly incorporating some greys, would look a lot more natural and a less forced.

Helen: I think people forget that your complexion also changes as well as your hair. You lose colour from your complexion.

Alison: Yes, of course we do. Yeah.

Helen: So, if you have natural hair, your body's kind of keeping the two in sync with each other. Whereas if you don't, there starts to be more of a disparity.

Alison: That's a really good way of explaining it because that's what you see, isn't it? It's really quite stark when you see it. And it really does stand out. And yeah, you just hope they've got a good friend somewhere that will say, have you sort of changing your hair colour? You have to be so careful, don't you?

Helen: I am kind of like everyone needs to follow their own path. 

Alison: Yes.

Helen: So, if someone genuinely feels better for colouring their hair, then that's what they should do. 

I think the thing about Lockdown, and why so many women did decide to go grey during Lockdown was, when you're colouring your hair, you're on a hamster wheel, you just don't even think about it.

I mean I literally used to make my next appointment as I left the hairdresser

Alison: Yes.

Helen:  for the next time I was gonna come in and get it coloured. And you just don't question it. You just keep doing it because it's part of your routine. Then in lockdown, obviously everything ground to a halt and people started to question many things, and hair, obviously one of those. 

And obviously things like working patterns, and what people wanted out of life, a lot more just because you were forced to stop and think. Whereas normally there's so many other things going on in your life that you just don't have the mental capacity for it, in the same way.

Alison: Yes. As you say, it becomes part of the routine, doesn't it? Rebooking the appointment. Using the same colour, that's what you've always done. 

And I agree with you, when life is so busy, you just carry on doing what you've always done. And it takes something like Lockdown, or something like, you know, somebody sort of saying to you, do you want to make a change? Is it time to make a change? Or even just looking in the mirror, and thinking, I think I need to make a change. 

And I would agree with you, if people want to colour their hair, absolutely fine. I think it's where they've coloured it one style for such a long time, that they haven't moved on with that, and the hair needs to age with them. You know, colour it by all means, but perhaps something a little bit softer than the harsh blacks or the deep browns.

Helen: It is, I guess, what you're comfortable with. 

Alison: Yes.

Helen: How do you find the condition of your hair?

Alison: Absolutely fine. Yes. Yeah. I take a collagen supplement. Mainly again for the bones and the bone density. And that definitely I've found has made a difference, to both nails and hair. My hair grows much more quickly now, but yes, it is absolutely fine. Yep.

I know the swimming can damage it a little bit, so again, it's just making sure that I always look after it. But I think it's diet as well, isn't it? And stress. We know that severe long stress makes a difference to hair growth. And alopecia, and conditions like that are often tied-in with a stressful event or episode or condition. 

So again, it's being holistic in your health approach. Hopefully that will then reflect in your skin and your hair.

Helen: Yeah. So that's from the inside. From the outside, any particular shampoos and conditioners that you like?

Alison: I use my own company's one and have done for the last 20 years. It's an Aloe-based one, and because the Aloe it adapts to the different hair types. And I find it fascinating because our company has got business in 146 countries around the World, and we all use the same shampoo. 

Helen: Okay.

Alison: So Japanese hair, Scandinavian hair, African hair, Asian hair, we all use the same, and I find that quite fascinating.

Helen: I always find it interesting that some people have gone very much down the route of using the hair, products that are specifically formulated for grey hair with the purple tints and things.

Alison: Oh, yeah.

Helen: and then some people don't. And I don't, I just use what I used to use before. So, I use like a Aveda Products, and I've got some seaweed shampoo as well. They're fairly natural, I guess. But I don't find that my hair needs anything special.

Alison: Yes. Yeah. I feel that, as long as the hair looks healthy, you know, whatever shampoo you use. And that again, is going back to the inside of eating well, and looking after yourself, because your hair and your skin is the two aspects that reflect stress, and tiredness, and poor health quite quickly.

I do find that if you use a shampoo that suits you, and your hair looks glossy and healthy, keep with it. One of the things I would be concerned with is a lot of companies will keep changing the formulation. So, you think you've got one that really works and then suddenly find that the next one you buy, the formulation has changed, and it doesn't work so well.

So, it's you know about keeping on top of that, isn't it?

Helen: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Alison: Oh, I'd say embrace it. First of all, ask them why, why they're thinking of making the change? What's happened? You know, is it again, external pressure or is it something that's their own choice? 

Then I would say embrace it and talk to their hairdresser, and find out the way that's going to be the easiest for them, so that it feels comfortable through the sort of the phasing of going from the colour to the grey. Yeah.

Helen: I'm guessing your grow out would've been quite quick? 'cause your hair is quite short.

Alison: Yes. Yeah. It's been short, as I say, for over 40 years. I used to have a bob and blow drying it every morning. And found you couldn't breastfeed and blow dry your hair and get off to work on time. The three things didn't work. So, I kept the son, and lost the hair.

I've had it as short, yeah, for 40 years now. I just find it so convenient because you just literally step outta the shower, shake it dry, and walk on. That's it.

Helen: Well, had you seen me this morning I had a bath, washed it. I haven't done anything to it. I've just left it. Which I have the luxury of doing 'cause I work from home.

Alison: But it's got a lovely natural sort of flow to it, so, you know, must feel comfortable. And I do appreciate the advantage of having long hair is you can just tie it back. You've got so many more choices on what you can do to style it. 

But then, the advantage I find is that I just don't have to worry about what my hair looks like when I'm going out.

Helen: If I'm worried about mine, it's just in a ponytail.

Well, I'm gonna say thank you very much for chatting to me. You've been a great guest. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Alison: Thank you, Helen. I have really appreciated being asked. And yeah, bringing up some interesting memories on hairstyles and hair colours. Thank you very much indeed.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.