Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Nina Macarie, a podcast manager and visibility expert for mission-driven women, especially mums who are ready to amplify their message and take space without selling their soul, or burning out. She helps online entrepreneurs get seen and heard through strategic podcast shows, podcast interviews, and online collaborations.

Her work is rooted in faith, family first values and real-life experience as a business owner, dreamer, wife, and mother of two. Hello, Nina. How are you?

Nina: Hi, Helen. I'm so excited for this conversation because I usually don't have conversations around this topic.

Helen: Yeah, it's not a business podcast for a change. I'm gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Nina: I believe I was in high school when I found my first one. But back then I was more into dyeing my hair, because I wanted to see how I would look with a different colour. Back then, I was a dark blonde. When I was a kid I had a lighter blonde, and I even had bangs as a kid. 

And then I remember in primary school, I used to always wear braids. My mum used to braid my hair every single morning. And then I believe it was around secondary school when my hair started to curl. And then in high school it was curly. I had thick hair, a lot of volume, but I hated it, because I was not like everyone else. My hair was different.

Back then my Mum was making at home the soap that I was using to wash my hair, and I was also rinsing it with vinegar. I felt odd because no one was doing that, but now I know more, and it was fine.

But we did not have a lot of products back then for curly hair. My Mum doesn't have curly hair, so she had no idea how to take care of my hair, and I used to hate it. I remember that. 

And then before the Prom in high school, I dyed my hair black, I mean dark, but I used this washout dye. It was not the permanent dye that I used. I really loved the colour. I loved how it looked on me because it was dark hair, blue eyes. I'm pretty pale, so I loved it. 

But then soon I realized that it's a lot of work. I mean, after three, four weeks, you can start to see the roots in a different colour, and that was not something that I loved. But now since I started this journey of dyeing my hair, I was interested in experimenting with other colours. 

I remember one time, I was a student back then, in a different city, and during the weekends I was going back home, and I dyed my hair red. And I went back to the university. I was traveling by train, and usually my back then boyfriend, now my husband was waiting for me at a train station.

And then that specific day he was late. We were talking on the phone. He knew that I was coming with a friend of mine. And then it was so funny because we met on the street, but he approached only my friend. I was next to her carrying the really heavy luggage, but he didn't recognize me because my hair was red.

And it was so funny. He asked my friend, so, hey, have you seen Nina? Do you know something about her? Is she coming? And she was like, here she is. Yeah, it was funny. 

So, I tried different colours from light red to dark red, and then I moved to blonde again, from lighter blonde to darker blonde. I tried everything.

But I remember it was very difficult when I lived in different cities. 'cause I used to live in different cities, when I was as a student, then when I did some studies. I did my Master's degree in Spain, then I came back to Romania. I did more studies, then I worked. And then before having my first kid, we moved again.

So, I lived in all those places, and every time I had to find a new hair salon, and that was exhausting.

Helen: Were you colouring your hair yourself or were you getting it done in a salon?

Nina: In a salon, because I call myself having two left hands, meaning that I cannot do my hair. I try to straighten my hair only twice in my life by myself, but I never could do it till the end, because I got so tired. Because I have a lot of hair. And I was like, no, I cannot do this. This is not for me. I don't have the patience, the willingness to do it on my own. So no, I was not doing it.

Helen: Okay.

Nina: my own at home I was doing at the salon.

And then I think it was also complicated, because the roots have a different colour and then the rest of the hair is dyed. And it looks differently, and you had to make sure that you put the right amount of bleach and mix it with the dye. For the roots, and then something different for the rest of your hair. 

And it's so complicated. No, I don't wanna do this by myself.

Helen: I am with you there. I only ever had mine coloured in a salon.

Nina: it's complicated when you travel, and when you live in different places, to rely on, a good person that really understands your type of hair. Knows what she's doing. So, yeah.

Helen: Coming back to finding the first grey hair, how did you feel about it when you found it?

Nina: Actually, I was expecting this, because my Mum was having grey hair pretty much all my life, since I know her. I was very strange because my Mum has grey hair, my father only had curly hair, and I got the mix. My grandfather also had grey hair, and my Mum's brother also had grey hair, my cousin as well.

And it was not a surprise for me to have grey hair. So yeah, it didn't mean anything because as I mentioned back then, I was interested more in exploring different colours, so I was not

Helen: It didn't upset you or shock you or anything like that.

Nina: Yeah. No. And actually, I was surprised. I have a son, he is 15 years old, and two years ago I found his first grey hair. So, in our family it starts very early. Yeah.

Helen: I had a grandma who had completely white hair by the time she was 22.

Nina: Wow. Wow.

Helen: That's not quite the way it panned out for me. But I found my first grey hair at 18 and I was kind of like, Ooh, Is that how it's going to be?

Nina: Yeah, like for me it was pretty common seeing my Mum. And actually, I remember this story. My Mum used to be a kindergarten teacher, so she was teaching kids from three to six years old, and she always tells this story. 

When one of her kids, one of her students told her, hey, you look like an old lady with this grey hair, even though she was in her thirties. And my Mum said, you know what? I'm actually dyeing my hair. You know how your Mum dyes her hair blonde? I'm dyeing my hair grey. I wanna be different. I wanna be special. And like, yeah, the kids said nothing after that. 

But you know, actually a few weeks ago I was caught off guard by one of my daughter's friends. I mean, no, it was her younger sister. So, my daughter had a friend at our place, and when her parents came to pick her up, they came with a younger sister. And the younger sister look at me and she asked me, why do you have this hair like this? 

And to be honest, I paused because I did not know how to respond to her. She's four or five-year old. I did not know. I didn't remember my Mum's story, just to tell her, you know, this is how I dye my hair, I find it interesting. 

And then her mother playfully said, you know, it's not your business, how people do colour their hair, or something like that. And she changed the subject. But I was for a moment uncomfortable, because I did not know how to respond.

Helen: That is quite interesting. One of my previous guests, she went grey very young, and her daughter has the same syndrome that she has. So same thing, but she's only got a streak.

And she was saying it was very different for her daughter growing up to her growing up, because of things like the Disney Frozen movie, where one of them has the white hair.

Nina: Yeah.

Helen: And so, it's kind of more acceptable for children than it was when she was young.

Nina: Yes, I do feel that now these days, you know, people dye their hair in different colours, you no longer know if their hair is dyed or not. When I was a kid, we were a communist country until I was 10 years old, until 1989. We were a communist country, so we had barely, no access to dyes and things like that.

So, you didn't see a lot of people with dyed hair. Usually, people were wearing their natural hair, and sometimes they were using some purple rinse. Usually the women with grey hair, they were using this purple rinse. I mean, usually when they were going to an event, like a wedding or something like that. 

Helen: What was the catalyst for you deciding to stop dyeing your hair, and just to let it go Its natural colour?

Nina: To be honest, it was during the Pandemic, when everything was shut down. I bought the dye and all the things, and I thought, I'm gonna do this in my own bathroom. I'm gonna dye my hair. I asked my husband to help me, and it was such a struggle, and such a failure, that I didn't like it. 

I didn't like the process. And I told myself there's no way I'm gonna do this every three, four weeks. I had no idea when the salons are going to be open again. And I said, you know what? I'm just gonna let it grow. Because I had a lot of white hair and back then I was blonde, a light blonde. I just let it grow, because I was not ready to do this on my own.

As I said, I don't like it. I'm not good at it. And my husband obviously didn't want to do this for me. I mean, the first time he tried, but it was a mess. And I said, yeah, that's it. I'm just gonna let it grow as it is, and I'm gonna embrace what's for me.

Helen: The grow out itself, did you just literally stop dyeing it, and leave it?

Nina: Yes, yes, that's exactly what I did.

And yeah, before that I remember that I even had those sprays just to, you know, cover my line and things like that. Because after two weeks, you could already see, I mean, at least I could see the grey hair, and I was annoyed. 

But after that when I decided, you know what? I just don't care. I wasn't going out when the Pandemic came. I just didn't care anymore. If people are not going to like it, it's not my problem. I'm just gonna let it grow.

Helen: Your hair's quite long. Did you just keep the length as it is, as it grew out?

Nina: Yes, yes. I usually just trim my ends.

Helen: How long did it take for the colour to grow?

Nina: Probably four or five years, I think. Yeah. Before that I had my hair even shorter. But, for the last four or five years, it was pretty long. But I didn't cut it short. 

Actually. I know someone, who also decided, you know what, I'm gonna go grey. We are both in our forties. I mean, she's early forties. I'm in my late forties, but she just cut her hair short, and she's more like salt and pepper. 

I had a lot of white roots, grey roots. So, for me, it didn't make sense to just keep doing it. Or cut it short and then let it grow. 

Helen: I guess if your hair was light blonde anyway, there wasn't a huge contrast?

Nina: Exactly, exactly. It wasn't a huge contrast. I have people telling me that I am brave because I did that. They would also like to do it, but they are afraid of exactly this transition, where the roots are white, and then the rest of the hair is dark. 

And actually, one of my Sisters-in-law tried, she is dark hair, and tried to bleach her hair, and it came out this awful red. She didn't like it. And then she went back to dark hair, even though she has to dye it every 2, 3, 4 weeks, she said it's better. And she didn't want to cut her hair. 

So yeah, I guess it's a choice. At the end of the day.

Helen: Yeah, completely. How did your friends and family react to you choosing to go grey?

Nina: They didn't care. I mean, my husband was fine with my solution. He didn't care. I mean, my Mum obviously was supportive. My kids didn't care. I mean, yeah, they liked it. They have nothing against it. 

I had a few people, not a lot, but I remember, as I was telling you, for my business, I'm trying to sometimes be more visible. It's always a struggle for me as an introvert. So, I have those times where I'm more visible on social media, and then I will stop for a while.

And I remember one time when I had a spike, and I put some videos up. I had two people reaching out to me, and telling me that I should wear different colours, or that I should have a different background. Because my hair doesn't look good with a white background, or with a white shirt.

And I said, yeah, I'm fine, whatever. I mean, I responded in a nice way. But I was like, you know what? I'm just doing my best here. I'm pushing myself to actually film these videos, and I don't need something else to think about. So, I will just do it as it is. I'm fine with that, and maybe next time I will do better.

But yes, it's true if I have something black or in a darker colour, my hair will look better. But in the summer, I really love white shirts, and this is what I'm gonna wear because I like it. I don't care what somebody else is going to say.

Helen: You can see I'm wearing white as well. So.

Nina: Lovely. 

Helen: Is it normal in Romania to go grey or do most women dye their hair?

Nina: I do believe that it really depends on what you do, I mean as a profession. Because if you want to, you know, look more stronger, you will continue to dye your hair. ' cause I feel that people with grey hair will seem to be old, and then you are not taken seriously. 

But now, these days, I feel that more people will embrace their authenticity, and they will just do it. I believe it really depends, is a personal option at the end of the day,

Helen: Completely.

Nina: In my inner circle, I do not know a lot of people with grey hair. I mean, my age

Helen: Yeah.

Nina: in their forties. 

Helen: How do you find the condition of your hair since you've stopped dyeing it? 

Nina: Actually, I do feel that when I had COVID I started to lose a lot of hair, but now I feel it's better. 

In the meantime, I also discovered this Curly Girl Method. it's about using only like approved shampoos or conditioners that are silicon free, and I don't know, other ingredients free. Like always when I go shopping for products for my hair, I always have like pictures of the products that I am allowed to buy.

So, I feel that this really helps. Because, yeah, I no longer use a lot of harmful ingredients. And I pay attention to the shampoo that I'm using, the conditioners, the Leave in, the Balm. Like I use a lot of ingredients, but I am happy with how it feels, and the health of my hair.

Helen: Do you use purple shampoos at all?

Nina: Yes, I do, from time to time I do, because sometimes I notice that this yellowish colour starts to show. But I'm not sure it if it depends on what I eat, or on my stress levels. I have no idea because it's not that obvious all the time. So, I like to use it from time to time.

And actually, before the Pandemic, I remember that I tried a lot of colours, like blue, pink, purple. I dyed my hair in different colours. But again, they were all wash out dyes. So, after two, three weeks, you couldn't tell that it was a different colour.

Sometimes I think that I would like to do this. But then I'm like, no, 'cause I need to book an appointment. And no, I just don't have the mental space to do this.

Helen: I don't wanna get back into the hassle of it all.

Nina: No.

Helen: I am gonna ask you one last question then. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Nina: I would tell them if you are ready for the transition, then go for it. It really depends if you want to look shiny and polish. I sometimes feel that if you have grey hair, sometimes you don't look that polish as you would look if you would have like, I don't know, a perfect blonde or darker hair. 

And you need to own this. If you start embracing this, then fully own it and you will be fine. If you are thinking about it, but you are not convinced. I don't think it's going to last long. You will go back to the old habits.

Helen: I think that's very true. Particularly in the grow out phase because there are days when you look, and think I just look a mess. And if you are committed to where you're going in the end, you're much more likely to stick with it, than if you are not a hundred percent sure.

Nina: Yeah, absolutely.

Helen: But I would like say, your hair is beautiful, so I'm not sure that I agree with the whole polished idea.

Nina: Thank you. Yeah. I guess I was feeling this when, you know, I had my line visible.

Helen: Yeah.

Nina: Yeah. But now I'm perfectly fine as it is. I really like it, and I don't think I would go back to dyeing it.

Helen: Yeah, I definitely wouldn't, it's just way too much hassle.

Nina: Yes, absolutely.

Helen: Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Nina: Thank you so much, Helen. Have a great day.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.