Helen J: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Helen Davis, a clinical hypnotherapist and functional movement teacher who helps people improve their posture, move more easily, and let go of unwanted fear and pain now, and into the future. Through her business, One Step Forward, she offers group programs and one-to-one sessions to free you up to live the life you long to live, online or in person in Hampshire. 

Good morning, Helen. How are you?

Helen D: I am very well. Thank you, Helen. It's good to be here.

Helen J: I am gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Helen D: Honestly, I can't. Because it didn't really bother me at the time. I think I was relatively young, but I didn't do anything about it for a long time.

Helen J: That's quite unusual. Most people I speak to pluck them out when they find the first one.

Helen D: I didn't. 

I know my mother went grey quite young. In fact, it's quite interesting, 'cause my mother, her maiden name was White, and her mother's maiden name was Grey. So, that suggests that all the way back on my maternal line, there were a lot of people who went grey, quite young. Because that's where those names often came from.

I didn't start finding white hairs as early as she did. And as I say, when it first started, I didn't worry about it.

Helen J: Did your Mum colour her hair, when she went grey?

Helen D: She didn't originally, but she did later on in life. 

The reason I started colouring my hair, was when I got married. So, I got married relatively, well not these days, relatively late, but I got married at 36. And I remember my sister saying to me. Do you want grey hairs in your wedding photos? And I didn't think they were that big a deal at that point. But I thought, oh, maybe she's got a point. So, I started having highlights. 

Helen J: Okay.

Helen D: So that was what took me down the route of having my hair coloured. Because I'd never dyed my hair in any way when I was younger. 

When I was younger, my hair was naturally highlighted in that on my father's side of the family, there's a lot of red hair. And so, my hair could look red. I mean, I'm brunette, obviously people can't see me. I'm naturally brunette. And now much greyer. 

But, when I was young, depending on the light, it looked very red, almost, sort of goldie blonde. I never dyed it 'cause I didn't want to lose that mix of colour that I had back then. 

And then as I say, you know, when you're getting married, you think about everything. And so, I thought, yeah, I'll give it a go. So, I started highlighting it. Of course, once I'd started doing that, I then got into that cycle of constantly having it redone. And over the years it, became more, more of a chore. 

And then, finances got tight. Again, people can't see me. I have a lot of hair, and it's curly. And so having it highlighted, took basically a day's commitment, and hugely expensive. Finances got tight at one point and I started using a packet dye. 

And then one day, which coincided with a whole load of other huge changes in my life, I made the decision to stop dyeing it.

Helen J: So, did you move from highlights to a solid colour then over time?

Helen D: Yes. Having said, I would always go and have it highlighted. As I say, for financial reasons, I thought I just can't afford it. But it needs doing. So, I bought a packet of dye. And of course once I'd done that, all the highlights are gone. So, I then just stuck with that.

Helen J: How long did you do that for?

Helen D: The dyeing overall?

Helen J: Yes.

Helen D: So, I started dyeing it in 2002, 'cause that's the year I got married. And I stopped dyeing it in 2015, which is funnily enough, the year after I got divorced. Major life changes.

Helen J: Completely. And you've said the trigger was basically a financial one?

Helen D: The highlights to me were dyeing it to cover up the grey. So that's what I was doing. So, the financial trigger was, how I did it.

Helen J: Yeah.

Helen D: But as far as I was concerned, what I was doing, was hiding the greys at that point. I mean, all the way through.

Helen J: Why did you stop?

Helen D: So, it was interesting. I was going through huge life changes. A couple of years before that, I'd gone into major burnout, from the job I'd done for 20 years, which was working as a business analyst.

And that manifested as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I literally couldn't work for a year and a half. It was another couple of years before I could really do anything sort of even on a part-time basis. And I reassessed everything in my life. The things that helped me to heal were hypnotherapy and slow mindful yoga. And so, I retrained in both of those. 

But in order to get to the point of doing that, my marriage also was something I ended up moving away from, shall we say. It was a mutual agreement by that point. We didn't have children, which made it much easier. So, I was going through to say huge life changes.

And the catalyst for stopping dyeing my hair was going on a yoga retreat week. By this point I'd already done my hypnotherapy training, and I knew I was gonna train to teach yoga. Or I think I was being encouraged to train, to try and teach yoga. 

And I remember sitting at the table with a group of, I don't know, 12, 15 women all somewhere between 40 and 70, and only I think four of us had dyed hair. Now that's very unusual. But this was a group of yoga teachers, and people who were very much in touch with their bodies, and living a very natural life. 

The subject came up, we were actually talking about it. And one of the women there said that she felt she needed to keep dyeing her hair, because of the work she did, and the fact that it was part of the corporate profile and so on. And that was very separate from her life as a yoga practitioner. 

And I suddenly realized, none of that applies to me anymore. I know I'm walking away from my job. I'm changing my lifestyle. Why do I do it? And it was part of embracing the whole new me, and stepping into the life I was creating for myself.

And then, there was something happening in the summer, I was gonna be on photographs and things. So, I had a very conscious thing. I remember the day I did my last dye. I knew it would be the last one. I was doing it for a specific date, which was June, 2015. And after that I said, right, that's that I'm not doing it again. Which is what happened. 

And I wasn't working, as I say, at the time. I wasn't out in public very much, 'cause my health was still not good at all. So, it wasn't too difficult a process to go through.

And then spring of the next year, big cliche coming up, but I went on a trip to India, yoga trip to India, with many of the same people. And at that point my hair was growing out enough that when I came back from that, I then went and had the chop, and I had all the colour cut out. And ended up with hair shorter than I'd had since I was 10 years old.

Helen J: Which was a bit of a shock to the system I imagine?

Helen D: It was. I didn't like it, but I knew I was doing it for a reason. And with hindsight, I kind of wish I'd grown it out, and had the line. 'cause I think there's a certain amount of claiming that. Whereas I kept explaining to people why I'd had it cut short.

Helen J: I can understand why you did it. 'cause you do reach a point where you're just like, I need the colour gone. I don't wanna see it anymore.

Helen D: Yep.

Helen J: So, I've got a few questions for you. The last time you had it dyed for an event, was that so that it would look all right in the photos?

Helen D: Yes. A hundred percent. It was something I was doing with my family. And I just thought, it didn't feel like the right thing to do to show up with what would've looked like unkempt hair for that particular thing.

Helen J: So, it's very image related?

Helen D: Yes, yes, it was. Yeah.

Helen J: If you were still working in corporate, do you think you would've chosen to go grey?

Helen D: I have no idea, because even the thought of still working in that world. I don't think I would be whatever had happened. So, as I say, because of the way it all evolved. I can't imagine not doing what I do now. If I were still there, I would be such a different person that I can't answer the question.

Helen J: Fair enough. For the grow out, you just went cold turkey. Did it ever bother you that it looked a bit messy while you were growing it out?

Helen D: It must have done because I chose to have the cut. Whereas I didn't want short hair.  

I have a lot of hair, very curly hair. Messy is my default. So, it's not so much that, but it was the colour thing, and I think because there weren't many women growing out their grey hair at that point. Not nearly as many as there have been in the last few years. I was in two minds about the cutting it out, but it just felt like the thing that one did. So, I did it. 

But what was so interesting was when we went into COVID, which was obviously, you know, five years down the line for me. When many other people then started growing out their greys. What I did at that point was to grow the length of my hair. 

Helen J: Yeah.

Helen D: So, although I'd got more length back, when we went into COVID, it was probably, chin height. I guess, I then didn't have it cut for about three years.

Helen J: So yeah, it's quite long now.

Helen D: It is long. I actually had it cut for a few weeks ago, for the first time in over a year.

Helen J: So, I was gonna ask you, obviously you've said you went grey in 2015, which was ahead of the curve. Have you noticed any change in the reaction you get from other people, pre and post COVID?

Helen D: I've never had anything but positive responses, including from a lot of younger women, which is interesting. My hair is quite grey around the temples now, but at the back it's still really dark. In fact, when I had it cut the other day, the hairdresser assumed I was still growing it out.

Helen J: Mm-hmm.

Helen D: I was like, no, this is a hundred percent natural.

So, if someone sees me from the back, I've still got really dark hair. And actually, I would love my hair to be greyer. I'm longing to have long grey curls. But I mentioned on my father's side of the family, there's a lot of red hair, and both my paternal grandmother and my aunt on that side never really went grey.

And that's where the curl comes from as well. So, I think I've inherited more of that than the hair genes on my Mother's side. My Mother has the most amazing head of thick white hair these days.

Helen J: What sort of reaction do you get from other people around your grey hair? Obviously, you said younger women, you've been really pleased to see a positive reaction.

Helen D: I think it's been pretty positive all the way through. I mean, again, because I was going through so many huge life changes when I did it, and also, I'd been really ill. So, although I'd kind of come through and I come out the other side of being ill, my family and friends.

Well, my family got used to me just changing everything about my life, and suddenly apparently becoming a different person. And also, my friendship groups changed enormously because when I was married, I spent a lot of time with friends that I knew through my husband. 

And then when we split up, I moved towns. I Started a completely different new career. So, I started from scratch in meeting people. So, the majority of people who are friends of mine today have only ever known me with natural hair. 

Helen J: Yeah.

Helen D: So, it's got greyer over time, but they never saw it when it was coloured. 

And I do remember my mother saying, 'cause you know, it's, it's inherent, isn't it? We always think, oh, my mother's gonna disapprove. I do remember her saying to me that she thought it showed a certain confidence, which I thought was really lovely.

As I said, she did colour her hair. Not from very young, but I do remember having coloured regularly. And then she chose to stop colouring her hair when her first grandchild came along. That was her cut-off point.

Helen J: The other person that I'm curious about is your sister, who obviously got you onto the dyeing In the beginning. Does she still colour her hair?

Helen D: She does. Yes. Yeah, we haven't really talked about that. I mean, to be fair I don't think mine was looking quite right. I think that contributed as well when I actually started. And now, when I look at the photographs, it doesn't look quite right. 

Whereas I genuinely don't see that when I look at her. I know she colours it, but I don't look at her and think, gosh, you shouldn't be. I'm now thinking, I dunno if she's gonna listen to this.

Helen J: You sound like you're really comfortable with your hair now. How did you feel about it when you were a child?

Helen D: Oh, my hair was a real challenge when I was a child. So, as I've said, I have a lot of hair and it's very curly. And that didn't come from my mother's side of the family. I grew up in the Seventies and Eighties, and nobody really knew what to do with it. All I wanted when I was a little girl was long hair. But my hair tended to go out or up rather than classically long. 

It was such a big thing for me that when I was maybe eight years old, my mother actually gave me a child-sized human hair wig for my birthday. Which was my best present ever for years, so I could use it for dressing up. It was my colour, brown hair, and I had a long straight-haired wig, and I absolutely loved it. 

And I did grow my hair longer. And I remember having plaits for school and things. But then I went through a period when I used to get Styes in my eye, those nasty infections. And looking back with everything I know through the work I do today, I'm, quite sure it was all stress related.

But at the time the doctors said, oh, they're very infectious. Her hair must be reinfecting her 

Helen J: Okay.

Helen D: each time. So, I had my hair cut short, which I didn't really want to do. And then all the way through my teens trying to grow it, 'cause again, I didn't know how to manage curly hair. So, we brushed it and it got bigger, and it got bigger. 

I remember vividly the first passport photograph I had taken when I was 16, and I was trying to grow my hair out. And someone had suggested I brush it back, and I have what can only be described as an Afro. And I was stuck with that for 10 years. So yes, it was very challenging.

It wasn't until I was, I would say, into my twenties that I started to really make peace with my hair. I mean, even through the Eighties when big hair was in fashion, I didn't have the right kind of big hair. Big hair that was permed was in fashion. 

But in my twenties, I made friends with it, and it's been a huge part of me. And that's why it's been so lovely to have long hair back again. 'cause I did that thing in my forties of cutting it shorter. 'cause that's what one did, and I thought I was meant to do. But yeah, I love having it long again. That's my midlife rebellion.

Helen J: I'm assuming you've also, maybe found some products, and a hair care routine that's works with the curls as well?

Helen D: I discovered the Curly Girl Method years and years ago. Use that. I have got very, very low maintenance these days. I hardly use any products at all. Yeah, very minimal.

Helen J: And how often do you wash it?

Helen D: Not very often. every couple of weeks or so, I've found what works for me. And often I just wet it, ‘cause that brings the curl back. Yeah, it's been a really interesting process.

And coupling that with, hardly ever having it cut. You know, I look back and I think how much my hair used to cost me, when I was having it cut every eight weeks. And even if I was colouring it myself, but prior to that, having it highlighted it was a fortune. And now I just let it do its thing.

Helen J: Did you have to wash it and condition it a lot more when it was dyed?

Helen D: Yes, the condition is definitely better. I mean obviously, as the greys spread through it, the hair changes. But I would say the condition now, particularly since I've had the split ends cut off again recently, the condition is definitely better than it has been for years.

I basically don't use shampoo. I was trying to decide whether I was gonna tell you this or not, but yeah, we're talking about it. So yeah, I don't shampoo it anymore. I use water and coconut oil. And brush it through, when it needs it. And when I brush it, it still gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So, I can only brush it if I'm then gonna get in the shower and wash it again. But it really has transformed it. 

So, when I used to use a lot of products, I could get that very sort of defined curl look, which I like. But now that I've moved away from doing that, I've accepted that it does, tend to be a bit frizzier. But for me, it feels like a really good, healthy way of looking after it.

After I was ill, I went through a whole process of detoxing everything in my life. My food, and the products I use around the house, I use on my skin. And this eventually felt like a natural progression of that.

Helen J: Do you have any hints and tips for anyone who's thinking about going grey?

Helen D: I would say if you are curious about how it would look on you, and how it feel, then give it a go. What's the worst that can happen? If you don't like it, you can change it again. 

I do remember when my hairdresser was cutting out the colour in my hair. He'd been looking after my hair for a long time. I don't go to him anymore. But he said, oh, it'll never last. So, he was fully expecting me to be back a couple of months later going, no, no, no, we've gotta do something about this. 

So yeah, I would say give it a go. Particularly these days it's so much less of an issue than it was, and so many people really like it, and are positive about it.

And I think it looks fantastic actually for most people, but if you feel it doesn't suit you, you can just change again.

Helen J: Yeah. Yeah. I think it tones really well with your skin tone, 'cause obviously your skin tone has changed as well. But a lot of it's about what you feel confident and comfortable with. And if that's dyed hair, then that's cool as well.

Helen D: Exactly. And I also think people who dye their hair all sorts of amazing colours. I think that's incredibly cool, and fun, and I love it. It is just not ever been something I've done.

Helen J: Not for you. Okay, well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Helen D: Thank you. It's been lovely to talk to you.

Helen J: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.