Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Rachel Jammeh. She's the founder of Therapy Begins Limited and a qualified counsellor with expertise in person-centred and child-centred therapy. Rachel works with children, young adults and adults, and has extensive experience in the public sector and workplace counselling. She provides flexible in-person and online sessions.

Hello, Rachel. How are you?

Rachel: Good afternoon. I'm really good.

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Rachel: There's a bit of a story really about my going grey. I think I was round about mid-twenties. I always had very, very dark brown hair, almost black hair. And I wanted a little bit of a tone to it rather than just the blackness, bit more of a warm tone. 

So, I went the hairdressers and had a hair dye put on. I had a serious allergic reaction. Ended up on heart monitor in hospital. Head was swollen, rashes everywhere. Had steroids and stuff to bring the swelling down. 

And then within about three, four weeks, my hair actually started to fall out. So, it was coming out in chunks. You know, it did grow back within about a year, but it grew back completely different texture. Came back the same colour, but then the grey started appearing then. 

So, it was probably about 26, 27 when I spotted the first grey hair. Didn't have grey hair beforehand, so I don't know if it was naturally, it would've turned grey at that age, or if it was sort of the shock of what happened with the allergy to the hair dye. So yeah, I was probably about 26 ish.

Helen: And how did you feel about the grey hair?

Rachel: To be fair, it didn't really bother me. It took probably until I was in my forties till that ended up how it is now. It was very gradual, sort of like grey hairs, you know, the usual places. But the back was always quite dark, so it was a gradual effect.

But I always knew that I couldn't dye my hair, so it was just accepting that I was naturally gonna go sort of grey or white as bits of it are. So, me personally, it didn't bother me as much as possibly what other people's perceptions of it are.

Helen: I think especially for you, 'cause obviously you didn't have a choice 'cause you knew if you even thought about it, it was gonna make you

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Helen: ill if you put dye on your hair again.

Rachel: Yeah, well, I had all the patch dye, it wasn't worth taking the risk. Because even in what they'll say it as a natural henna or a natural die, there's still traces. And he said, next time, with allergies, your next reaction can be worse than the one you had before.

So, he basically said, you know, it could potentially kill you if you do it again. So, when that's spoken to you, you just don't do it. I know allergies can come and go, but I do know from sort of clothing and touching other things, I get an allergic reaction, so I know it's still there.

Even if I go with the hairdressers, you know, when you get your hair washed. On the back of my neck, I can still get a rash after I've had my hair washed just while for, you know, a cut. Now the sink looks clean, but there must be some kind of traces from somebody who's previously been on there, having a dye washed out.

So, I'm that sensitive to the hair dyes, that I just wouldn't risk it. It's just not worth taking the risk.

Helen: Which is very sensible. 

Rachel: Yeah.

Helen: So, what sort of reaction have you had from other people then with your hair, as it started to grey?

Rachel: Well, I think a lot of people obviously don't know the story behind it. So, you know, the people who you maybe haven't seen them for 10 years, and people make comments about my grey hair. Oh, I remember you when you had dark hair. You know, it's comments like that, that people make.

Or even I went my hairdressers and one of the other hairdressers was trying to persuade me, to use some of this natural dye. I know things have progressed. I’m 55 now. So, you're looking at 30 years ago since I first had that reaction. And I know dyes have changed and, things possibly have. But the hairdresser was still trying to persuade me to have patch tests to get my hair dyed.

I get different reactions. Not all bad, some good. And I know my hairdressers, it was after I'd been in, I went back again and she'd said, one of my clients came in afterwards and she'd seen your hair. And she said, she says if she wanted a hair dyed like yours, because she thought I dyed it, this colour. 

So, you know, I do get compliments about it and I have had some friends who've said, because your hair looks so nice. It's kind of empowered them to go grey. I've had both reactions. But yeah, some people are a little bit, I'll make comments about it, until I tell them, obviously I'm allergic to hair dye. I can't dye it. 

But yeah, I think it's a lot of people. I'm not just saying particularly, it's either male or females. It's come from both sides. Have mentioned it.

Helen: Okay. And do you think the reaction you get has changed at all since COVID? 'cause obviously you went grey quite a long time before most people did?

Rachel: I did. I think more people are going grey. I think it's more acceptable. And you know, even before COVID, I would say possibly 10 years ago, there was the London-Chic,term came out about grey hair. Where young people in their twenties models were dyeing their hair grey. So, I think even before COVID it was slightly more acceptable. 

I know COVID did have an effect, 'cause people couldn't get hold of hair dye. So, people were going grey. In COVID Lockdown, you couldn't get hair dyes, you know, you'd go into the shops and it was like the things that went missing. You know, you couldn't get toilet paper, pasta, or hair dyes because people were just frantically clearing the shelves of hair dye.

Helen: I guess all those people who normally go to a salon to get it coloured, were suddenly having to try and do it at home.

Rachel: Yeah. So, I think it has changed. And I think women are more sort of empowered now to be more outspoken, and not fit into, you know, the norm of what people do. I think some people, yeah, we are more empowered to think if we wanna go grey, it's our choice to do that.

Helen: Your hair's got quite a lot of white in it now, but it's not entirely white, is it?

Rachel: No, it's sort of textured. As I say. I think that's why when I've gone into the salon, the ladie’s seen it. I think she's thought that I've had sort of like highlights put in, because it is very kind of like highlight looking. It's not all like block one colour. It has got highlights in. So, if I was gonna go grey, I'm quite happy with the sort of grey white colour that it has gone.

It's something that, I don't really think about it. I think it's when you look in the mirror. I think it's because it's happened over a gradual time. Okay, I didn't make the choice to go grey, but I don't notice it. It's when other people mention it, I think, oh, oh yeah, I'm grey. I've got great hair. 

You kind of forget. And it's funny, as I say, you know, I've had the conversation before, you know, when if somebody asks you what your hair colour is. I dunno, if the back of my head, I would still say, I've got brown hair. And I haven't. But I think that's just, I don't notice it. I really don't notice it. I think it's probably more other people's issues than what is mine.

Helen: And do you use a special shampoo? 'cause can you use a purple shampoo actually?

Rachel: Well, funny you mention it. No, I don't. I just use whatever is in the shower cabinet, or whatever's on offer in the supermarket. But my daughter's 17, and she'll say oh, Mum, your hair's got like a greeny tinge to it. It looks green. And it's normally down here.

And I work in a school, and I was telling some of the children. We were talking about hair and appearance and things like that. I’d said, oh, sometimes my daughter will say, you've got green hair, and they looked the like, actually you have. 

So, I Googled it, and apparently when you've got grey or white hair, either certain shampoo products, there's something in the shampoo that can tinge your hair a greeny colour. And also, your piping. The pipe work, if there's too much copper or whatever, something to do with older pipes, it can change your hair colour. 

So, until then I'd never really thought about using, as I say, I just pick up whatever's, either on offer, or whatever's in the shower cabinet I'll use. But obviously some products, I can't identify which of the products that tinge it green.

Helen: Yeah. Have you ever used a purple shampoo or would you not be able to?

Rachel: I possibly wouldn't. And again, it's not worth taking the risk. When the severity of the reactions that I do get. My windpipe and everything closed up. I didn't have eyes. My eyes were completely shut. It was an extreme, severe reaction to it. I wouldn't take that chance.

Helen: There's a lesson to have a patch test before you have your hair dyed the first time.

Rachel: Well back 30 years ago, they didn't tend to do patch tests. It was just, you know, things have changed now. And yeah, obviously people do. I think there's a lot more people who've got allergies now than what that ever has been. You know, you'd never really heard about people allergic hair dye. It's obviously more common now. 

But yeah, you know, people just used to go to the hairdresser and get your hair dyed and that was it. But even things like, luckily my eyebrows are still dark, but, you know, eyebrows, eyelashes. I could never have anything like that. Not that I'd want to, but I can't have things like tattoos or anything like that.

Nothing against tattoo's, not something personally I would choose to do, but I can't have anything like that.

Helen: Your colouring went from very dark to quite pale now. Has that changed the colours that you tend to wear?

Rachel: No. I don't think there's any colours that I don't particularly suit. I've always worn quite something like bright colours, rather than the blacks. But, you know, I can wear all black, and I do sometimes. But I tend to wear quite bright colours, and I don't think it's affected that. No, that it hasn't. 

And things like makeup. Not that I wear too much makeup, I think because it's gradually skin and everything does change, and it sort of blends in with your hair. I mean, considering my eyebrows are still quite dark. I don't think it looks blatantly ridiculous, that I've got dark eyebrows, and white hair.

Helen: No, It looks absolutely fine.

Rachel: Thank you.

Helen: Now a question about how you feel about ageing, and where you are at in the ageing process?

Rachel: I'm quite comfortable with ageing. I have to say, I know I've got a lot of friends who really, really struggle with it. Who will have every procedure done a try and prolong it, but you know, it's a fact of life. It's about accepting yourself for how you are. 

I personally wouldn't choose to have Botox or any kind of, so it's not just the fact that I can't dye my hair. It's a choice that I make about Botox and things like that. Makeup, I just, you know, I don't feel it's necessary. I think you are who you are. And I would rather grow old gracefully the way I am.

Helen: Are you doing anything to age healthily? 

Rachel: I have tried. I joined the gym and stuff like that. I need to lose a bit weight. I've put a bit weight on like, home only, sort of menopausey. But I am aware that I need exercise. I've been so busy recently with, starting my own business and working. And being a single mum to a teenager. And, you know, just the general life gets in the way. 

And I know it's possibly no excuse 'cause you can make time for it. But it is on the list. I'd quite fancy taken up, you know, that like the power walking. And making the effort of probably setting the alarm clock an hour earlier in the morning. I do walk, I've got a little dog, you know, so I am walking every day. 

I love to swim. Not since, cancelling my gym membership. Because I wasn't going, I was paying for it, and I wasn't going, I have missed because the gym had a pool, and I do love to swim. I could just swim for hours. I'm not a brilliant swimmer, but, you know, just back and forward. I do enjoy that.

Helen: I think you told me you live near the beach as well?

Rachel: Yes, I do. I'm not sure about cold water swimming. I like the sound of it. But I think Tynemouth, Whitley Bay Beach. The North Sea's a bit cold for my liking, possibly. 

It's extremely, extremely popular, cold-water swimming. You know, there's groups and there's a lot of people who do it. But I'm not quite sure I'm convinced with that just yet. If it was warmer, maybe.

Helen: I am with you there. You're happier walking along the beach.

Rachel: I love walking along the beach. It's definitely my happy place. I think, you know, just mentally you can switch off from everything. I tend to just walk the dog and walk, and I don't think, or, you know, you just try and clear your mind. Enjoy the scenery, the fresh air. The lovely smells you get down the beach and, you know, just appreciate where we live. That's, you know, how I take about walking on the beach. I always call it my happy place. 

I might try the water one day, but at the moment it's probably a no.

Helen: I've got a friend who tries to keep making me go cold water swimming, and I'm just like, it's just never gonna happen.

Rachel: I've got friends who send me pictures. You know, they'll go off to the Lake District, and I like the idea of, you know, my friend she'll find like waterfalls, and there's like the little pond bit at the bottom. And she'll go jumping in there, and that looks lovely, but I'm sure that's still cold as well. It looks lovely, but I'm not sure, jury’s out at the moment.

Helen: Coming back to your hair, your hair's about shoulder length now, isn't it? And layered?

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Helen: Has it always been long, or have you had it short? 

Rachel: The only time I had it short was when, majority fell out. It all fell out. I kept the back bit, but most of it came out round here. And I had a cut, really, really sort of Pixie short when it was starting to come back in. Just to strengthen it, and it would grow. But no.

To be fair, this is probably, this is quite short. I did have it a few years ago, quite a bit longer, probably your length. Because I always had like long, really, really curly hair, curly black hair. So, I did have it longer, but yeah, it's more manageable at this. 

I don't really do a lot of my hair. I'm not particularly that vain. I don't even want a hair dryer. I wash my hair and that's it. I let it dry naturally. I don't put products or anything in it. It's just simple. Wash it, a bit conditioner, and that's it.

Helen: How often do you wash it?

Rachel: I have to say every day, and I know that's probably not the best. But yeah, it just gets washed in the shower, every day. Once a day.

Helen: That's very different to me. I used to do mine every other day when I had it bleached, but now it gets washed once a week.

Rachel: Right. I know that, yeah, I possibly shouldn't wash it. It's just I'm in the shower, so just.

Helen: It's getting wet anyway.

Rachel: Yeah, I don't always, in fairness, I don't always put shampoo, if I'm just kind of having a chill day at home, or if I'm working from home, or, you know, I'm not gonna see anybody. Sometimes I just wet it in the shower, and I don't put shampoo or anything on it. But it does get wet every day.

Helen: Have you inspired any of your friends or family to go grey as well?

Rachel: I haven't really got a huge family. My Mum went grey quite early. She went grey in her thirties. We've got different kind of like texture hair, and we had different colour hair before being grey. Hers has got a lovely white colour, she's all white. She's been all white for a long time, and it is pretty. She's always been complimented on the colour of her hair.

I have had a couple of friends who've just been like, you know, we've seen your grey, and it looks lovely. So, they've started doing it. I've got a friend who she hit 60, and she used to dye a hair blonde all the time, and she hit 60, and she just thought, oh, let's just go for it, do it. And she has. 

But she was so blonde. She's gone her natural colour now. It doesn't really look that much different. You don't look at her and think you're grey, because she was so white blonde when she dyed it. So, you know, I don't look at it and see that much difference, to be honest.

Helen: I get accused of being blonde now some of the time, depending on the light, because it's so stripey.

Rachel: Yeah. Well some people who didn't know us when I was dark, always think they get a shock when they see pictures of us when I was younger. 'cause they thought my natural colour would've been more sort of like a dark blonde. But I was very, very dark, as I say, bordering on black. People are surprised at that.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey. Have you got any advice or tips for them?

Rachel: I would say it's personal, complete personal choice. If somebody wants to dye their hair, that's absolutely fine. And I think it's absolutely fine if you want to go grey. I would just advise and go with what you want to do. 

I know people do it differently where they dye their hair different, like lighter colours, and lighter colours until it's grown out. Some people just go for the complete, like, you know, the letting your roots come in, and just keep on getting it gradually cut out.

I wouldn't advise either way because as I say, mine was done differently. I think everybody's got their own experiences, and their own mind, on how to make up what's right for them.

Helen: Yeah. There are lots of different options. 

Rachel: Yeah.

Helen: Pick the one you feel comfortable with.

Rachel: Exactly. It's, you know, it's your hair, your body's the way you look. And I think, you know, we should be empowered to do what you want to do. Look the way you want to look. You shouldn't be forced into, or made feel bad, because you're doing it one way. I don't think there's the right way or wrong way of going grey. It's personal choice on how you do it.

Helen: Completely. Cool. Well, in that case, I'm gonna say thank you very much. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Rachel: You too.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.