Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey, in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Leah Dalby, a business owner who helps people with their skin and their scars. There've been two episodes in her life when she could sit on her hair, but since Lockdown, she prefers to cut it herself. Now, there's a few things I'm gonna ask you questions about later. 

Good afternoon, Leah. How are you?

Leah: Hello. Really nice to have this time with you. I'm very well. Thank you.

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Leah: So, when I was little my hair just grew and grew. I think Mum loved long hair, so it was never cut. But when I was seven, I was really keen to try having shorter hair. So, I had it cut when I was seven, and then I realized that actually I quite liked it long, so I just let it grow again till I was 13. 

And then I was hoping to maybe look like someone from Charlie's Angels. So, I had it cut and had a perm for 39 years. Still never looked like anyone from Charlie's Angels.

Helen: What colour was your hair when you were younger?

Leah: It was fairly blonde when I was little, and then it gradually got darker, and I would say it was Mousey Brown. It was always really blonde around the front there where my hair is thinner. It was always really blonde, especially in the sunshine.

Helen: Did you used to have it in braids, and ponytails, and things like that when you were little?

Leah: I had it in a plait for school. Occasionally two plaits. We had a lovely friend in Canada who always used to do French plaits when she came over. She loved having long hair to do, 'cause her children were older. 

But yeah, mostly in a plait, bun occasionally. And Mum had this amazing technique of making her hair look like a sort of crown with long hair. So sometimes we used to do that as well, but mostly plaits. And it was great choosing different ribbons, and elastics, and all of that.

Helen: You liked playing with it then, when you were little?

Leah: I wouldn't have said playing with it, to be honest. I think it was more practical than that. But I did enjoy the different ribbon side of it. I think it was probably more part of being organized, and dressed for the day rather than recreational. 

And that's a really interesting question because it's taken me, I'm nearly 60 and it's taken me till now to realize, actually I can really choose, but we might talk a bit more about that later.

Helen: So, you said, in your teens you had it permed, to try to like Charlie’s Angels. Which one of the Angels were we going for?

Leah: Well, probably Farrah Fawcett. I think all that flicky curly stuff would've been just gorgeous. But we didn't have a television, so I only saw still pictures of 'em in the TV Times, or Radio Times, or whatever. But I think that kind of gorgeous sensuous, curly hair would've been very me.

Helen: And did the perm give you that effect?

Leah: Variable really. Over 39 years, I became a real expert on perms, on different types of perms, and what worked well for my hair. So, it was great when I was working with the same hairdresser for a while. 

I would say with a lot of attention, yes, you could look amazing. But it was a lot of effort. And then you had to keep it dry as well. But definitely kind of blowing it the right way, and heated rollers, and hot brushes, remember those? 

So, it's a lot of high maintenance, and I'm really not very high maintenance. But I did try.

Helen: I was gonna say for over 30 years, I think you must be a little bit. Were you tempted to colour it in your teens at all?

Leah: No, not in my teens, but when I was in my early twenties, I had blonde highlights for a little while. There was a lovely, lovely person called Carol, who used to make coffee for us at the Physio College where I trained, and she always had bleached highlights, and her hair was just gorgeous. 

So, I'd have quite liked my hair to look like Carol's. But one day the hairdressers that I was at, the lady doing my hair went off sick, while the bleach was on my hair. And didn't tell anyone, and it will really ruined my hair. So that was the end of colouring.

 'cause actually I'm just glad to have really good hair. And yeah, it's fine. I'm just really thankful to have good hair.

Helen: How long did you bleach it for?

Leah: Oh, gosh. I don't know, probably 18 months max. But I'm really guessing. 

Helen: Yeah.

Leah: But it wasn't a very long commitment.

Helen: You liked the look, but not the damage that she did?

Leah: Yeah. I dunno how long it was meant to be on, but she went home ill. And I was in a salon setting for hours, and then someone's like, how come you're still here? What's going on with your head? Sort of thing. And I could tell they knew there'd been a mistake. 

So yeah, my hair was really badly damaged, very stretchy and snappy. But it grows,

Helen: That’s terrible.

 Leah: doesn't it? It grows back. 

Helen: Yeah.

Leah: That's good.

Helen: So, did you find that the perm was bad for the condition of your hair? Did it make it very dry or anything?

Leah: No, it didn't actually. I think I'm probably really well-nourished, and well, so got really resilient hair. I would say on Mum's side of the family, we've all been blessed with really good hair, so got away with a lot. And I was very young.

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Leah: Gosh, no, I can't. And I would definitely say my hair is white, rather than grey, as well. 

I do remember thinking, gosh, I've got a lot more of these than say like my aunt who used to move around in a wheelchair. So quite often I would be pushing her. She had really dark brown hair, and you could have counted the white hairs on her head, even in to her nineties, on both hands.

And also, Mum, not a lot of grey hair. So, I was really surprised and I can remember thinking, oh, that's probably from my father's side of the family. Because although he died quite young, before he died, his hair was grey and white. 

So yeah, it's terrible, isn't it? It's like having your first period, I don't even remember the date of that either. So, I don't remember my first white hair. But it didn't feel horrifying. It felt like part of life, and the evolution of life.

Helen: When did you start to feel like you had enough of a quantity of them to be noticeable? What age?

Leah: Gosh, do you know, I'm so sorry, I don't remember clocking that really. I remember thinking, I'm gonna be like Linda Evans off Dynasty with all this gorgeous white hair. 

But yeah, I don't remember. It just felt like, life changing and moving forwards really, for my hair to change too.

Helen: And were you still perming it at that stage?

Leah: Yes, it would've been for a little while, but not long. And interestingly, that sort of dates it, doesn't it? Because I've probably not permed my hair for 10 years. So, it's probably in the last 10 years that it's much more noticeably white 

Helen: Why did you decide to stop perming your hair?

Leah: I just couldn't think who I was doing it for, and it certainly wasn't for me, so I just thought I can stop this.

Helen: Do you use any kind of special shampoos, and conditioners, and things, to keep your hair in good condition?

Leah: I use the Tropic shampoos and sometimes the Tropic Body Pebble, that's a body product really. But it's great when you're traveling 'cause you can just take that one solid bar. But I do really love the hair products as well. Keeps it silking, gorgeous, thick. 

I think that combined with eating well, and drinking plenty, and enough sleep, all of that, and genetics, that's what keeps it good. I think.

Helen: How do you feel about where you're at in the ageing process?

Leah: I feel like it's a privilege to still be alive at nearly 60. 

I think it's increasingly important to really take good care of my physical body. Because, you know, I know it all as a physiotherapist, but I really feel it now as a beyond middle age. You know, I'm well into my second half now. 

So, I'm very aware that I need to take extra good care, and really pay attention to maintaining, and improving actually, my physical health as I get older.

Helen: And what are you doing to do that?

Leah: Exercises, stretching, some weights, walking every day.

Helen: And are you concentrating on nutrition as well?

Leah: Oh gosh, yes. Sorry, I was thinking about the outside. I find that a sort of Keto kind of way of eating really suits me best. With some intermittent fasting. But those are just labels, really. 

So, I suppose really what I'm doing is just eating late morning, and finishing eating early evening. But that's kind of what feels nice for me. But I discovered that it's Keto and intermittent fasting. I do it for what feels nice for my body, rather than it being a thing, if that makes sense.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: I think it's really important to hear what your own body's telling you. And actually, if I can quote one of my friends, Dawn Keys, who's a Homeopath, she has this really good thing where she says, if you listen to body when it whispers, you'll never have to hear it scream. And I just think that's such good sense.

Helen: So, Keto’s, low carbs, isn't it?

Leah: Yes, the carbohydrate would be through the fruit and vegetables that I'm eating, rather than bread, or grains, or other carbs. 

Helen: Talk to me a little bit more about your exercise regime. You obviously said you're walking every day?

Leah: I really enjoy to walk every day. I just find it very calming. And I love the outdoors. I love hearing the birds. I love feeling the breeze on my skin. I love to have a paddle. I love walking on the sand. I just love the little lanes.

And seeing the countryside change. This time of year, the hazelnuts are dropping off, and the elderberries. And it's interesting seeing the sheep, you know, the lambs turn to sheep. And just, it all change really. 

So, I guess it's about pleasure. I saw a really good thing about exercise, being about rejoicing, rather than punishing yourself what you eat. For me, it's very much about just being alive, really to be outdoors. 

The weights. Actually, I did a great thing the other week with a lady called Sally Wilkinson, who did a thing called The Free 500, I think it was. Some of you might have done her programs, and it was just great. She had such a down to earth, sensible and achievable thing. So, I still have my water filled water bottles that I do little lifts with every so often. 

And I guess as a physio, you know, exercise is part of my bread and butter. But you've still gotta do it, knowing it's one thing, but doing it's the important thing. 

But for me, I think loving it. And also the whole sort of Soma Sensing, Fascial Fitness kind of movement, those are probably, trademarked names actually. But that free fascial movement, 'cause our bodies know how to move, and keep mobile. 

You know, when you see a horse or a dog rolling in the sunshine, it didn't read that off an exercise sheet did it? It's doing it because it knows what it needs to do to move, and enjoy that sensuous pleasure. So, I guess I'm just trying to listen to my body, and enjoy it.

Helen: Okay. Any tips for that? 'cause I do yoga, and I do strength training, and running, and walking. But there are certain parts of me that are not very flexible.

Leah: Well, I guess it's just feeling what your body needs really. The fascial movement is very much about letting your body move at its own vibration and rate, and very much coaxing and oozing, and inviting it into movement. Rather than pushing things, or doing repetitions of things.

Without seeing you move, it's quite hard to advise you, to be honest. 'cause I wouldn't know what to say.

Helen: I'm just curious. I keep getting hit by Ads on Facebook about movement, and freeing up your hips, and walking kind of like spiders, and stuff like that, that you see in the videos 

Leah: Oh gosh.

Helen: and it's like, just to try and do stuff. And I'm fascinated, but I dunno how realistic it is.

Leah: Gosh, I've not had that one. I'm getting a lot of adverts for incontinence pads at the moment, so I'm hoping that's, well, it's fine I look after my pelvic floor.

Helen: I've not had any of those, thankfully. 

I should ask you about skin, 'cause obviously you help people with their skin. How does your skin change as you age?

Leah: How does my skin age or generally?

Helen: Generally.

Leah: I think the thing about losing collagen and elastin as we get older, and particularly with women and our hormones changing. Things just tend to be a little bit saggier. They don't have to, but that's a tendency. 

It's really important for us to have an exfoliation regime, because dead skin can give us such a grey look. Whereas if we're exfoliating once or twice a week, if that suits our skin, then it means you are using much less product because it's being absorbed onto that lovely, fresh, new skin. 

But also, it can reflect the light and give you that kind of iridescence luminescence that I guess we all are after.

Helen: Obviously, I think nutrition has a big part to play as well

Leah: I have great products with my skincare business, but I think you're right. Simple things like drinking plenty of water, and eating well for you. Getting plenty of sleep. is absolutely.

Helen: Coming back to grey hair,

Leah: hmm.

Helen: have the colours that you wear changed as your hair has changed?

Leah: Not noticeably, I wouldn't say. I probably wear slightly more fuchsia, pink and magenta than I used to. But I think it's just because I've fallen in love with it, rather than my hair colour. 

I've always been a real navy-blue person. And to be honest, that's part of how I ended up being a physiotherapist, because I love navy blue rather than green, which makes me look terrible. So being an OT was always going to be out of the question.

So yeah, Navy, blue, white. I know, it's terrible, isn't it? Obviously, they didn't ask me that at interview, so I didn't have to say, but that's the truth of how I ended up in physio.

Helen: I'm only laughing 'cause my daughter's about to start university to do medicine.

Leah: Oh, right.

Helen: And one of the places that she looked at vaguely was Sunderland, but trainee doctors wear bright orange. And she was just like, there is no way I am wearing bright orange.

Leah: Gosh. That's quite unusual, isn't it?

Helen: Yeah, she wasn't keen. She's going to Dundee, so she's in like a pale slatey grey, so she's happy. She likes that.

Leah: When we were training, mostly you had navy, blue and white tunics, but Manchester, one of the Manchester schools had brown, so that was very different.

Helen: I think they all have different ones, but yes. I was kind of like, really? That's built into your consideration? I had never thought of that.

I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, would you have any hints or tips for them?

Leah: Well, I suppose for me it's just never crossed my mind to alter my hair colour,

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Leah: So, I'm just really happy with how I look, and that I've got hair. A lot of the people that I see with my physio work have or have had cancer, and so they don't always have their hair. So, I'm just really grateful to have really thick, lustrous hair.

So, tips for thinking of going grey. I guess that sounds like maybe they've been changing their hair colour, and then they're wanting to let it be grey. I think that's probably about loving yourself, and loving yourself the way that you are. And that grey hair being part of you and the privilege of being an older person.

Helen: Cool. That's a lovely answer. So, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Leah: Oh, thank you. It's been really nice to talk with you. And all the best everyone. Thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.