Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today's episode is a little bit different on the Happier Grey Podcast, because I dropped my daughter at university this week, which made me think about mums, and I thought it'd be fun to interview my own on the podcast, 'cause I haven't done that. And she does have grey hair. 

So, hello Mum. How are you?

Jenny: I'm okay. Thank you. A little stressed with the computer, but otherwise fine.

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Jenny: My hair was very straight and very brown. And that was about it really in a Bob. 

Helen: You didn't ever have it long?

Jenny: No, never. I always wanted a plait, and my parents always wanted it in a Bob with a bow on the side. 

Helen: And was that the same through your teens?

Jenny: Good Lord, no. Until I went to grammar school, and then I had it permed, and it was curls, all short and curly. 

Helen: Was it like that the whole way through school?

Jenny: Probably, yes, I think so. Yes.

Helen: And did you ever colour it?

Jenny: No until probably early twenties when there was a powder stuff available, which you could put just on the front edges, and that was Auburn. And I did that for a little while, but didn't really like it, so I didn't do it for long. 

I have coloured it. I've had a rinse. Which was Auburn, which was supposed to wash out after 10 washes, but after the first wash, the water turned green. So, I was somewhat concerned, but fortunately my head didn't turn green. 

And then probably my forties, I had some streaks in it. Which I didn't particularly like, so I grew out, and I've never done anything since.

Helen: I can remember those. 'cause your hair is very dark brown, almost black, wasn't it?

Jenny: It’s quite auburn sheen in the light. 

Helen: And you had highlights.

Jenny: Very pale highlights. Yes. But I was so embarrassed when I got home, I wouldn't go out for a day or so. I just let 'em grow out. I was not impressed,

Helen: can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Jenny: Honestly, no. But probably in my sixties, I think. I certainly didn't get many until I was in my seventies. Which is possibly a reason why I never considered having my hair dyed, but I don't know really. But I never had any desire to have it because I stayed brown well into my eighties really.

Helen: Can you remember finding my first grey hair?

Jenny: No, I can't. Can you?

Helen: yes. You found my first grey hair at Beccles Sailing Club when I was 18. You did, you did.

Jenny: Oh, I didn't know that.

Helen: And you were like, gosh

Jenny: I've got an aging child.

Helen: And I'm like, why are you pleased? You're my Mum.

Jenny: Oh, well, there we go. No, I don't recall that at all.

Helen: Do most of your friends colour their hair?

Jenny: Yes, quite a few do. But increasingly they're going grey. Letting it grow out. I can only think of one who really has it dyed, and one who has the odd, coloured streak put in. But that's all just to, meld in with the rest. 

Helen: What sort of age would you say they stopped dyeing? Most of them.

Jenny: I think they're in their seventies, ones her eighties. But I think quite a lot of them now are grey. And they're in their seventies and eighties. 

Helen: What about your Mum and my other granny? Did they dye their hair?

Jenny: Well, my mother dyed her hair until she was in her seventies. When I persuaded her to stop, because it was beginning to look very brittle and dry. And reluctantly she did, but then agreed that it was a good thing 'cause her hair looked so much better without it, it became quite glossy and thick.

It was really thick. Tt wasn't like mine. Mine's all fine and fluffy. Hers was quite thick and course hair, and it was good. 

My mother-in-law went grey, I believe in her thirties. And she never had a dye in it, ever. She had very nice curly hair, so she just left it.

Helen: And it was like snow white hair as well, wasn’t it?

Jenny: Yes. Very white, and it was curly, and obviously easily managed. And she, I believe went that colour in her, in fact, I think most of her sisters were grey as well. They went grey early.

Helen: Dad was completely white when he was 60, wasn't he?

Jenny: Yes, he was. He did go white. Yes, but it, took quite a while to work through. He didn't go suddenly.

Helen: I actually think I potentially have more grey hairs than you and have had for a long

Jenny: You do now?

Helen: time. Yeah.

Jenny: well, I’m still quite brown at the back. It's slowly going, but very slowly.

Helen: You've been lucky in terms of going grey late.

Jenny: I've been lucky in terms of not going very grey. Yes. Although I've gone white rather than grey.

Helen: So, it's a very different question now. I in previous episodes have mentioned you a few times in terms of I want to be you, in that you are 89, and you live independently, and you are fit and healthy.

You took up tap dancing in your sixties.

Jenny: True. I did. I appeared on the stage of the Theatre Royal in my early sixties doing tap dancing, on two shows. Yes. 

I'd always wanted to do tap dancing, and I never managed to get the chance. 'cause of course I grew up in the War, so it was difficult to go out. There was blackout, and, you know, you couldn't go out to anything in the evenings, so I, didn't get to go.

So, I did it when I was 60. When I was a widow. And my husband couldn't be embarrassed.

Helen: Do you think he would've been embarrassed?

Jenny: I think he’d have thought I was a bit nuts actually, for trying it. But I enjoyed it, and I had a friend who wanted to do it as well. So, we went together. 

I carried on until, I stubbed my toe so badly I couldn't wear shoes. I gave up at that stage ' cause I was going to miss a term. I'd had enough anyway.

Helen: What else have you done over the years to keep fit and healthy?

Jenny: Well, you knew where I live, there's always a lot of gardening. There's always plenty of work around the house, so I don't get a lot of time to sit around. 

As you know, I sing, I'm in a choir. I've been in several choirs, and I still sing now, and I think that helps a lot. It's an interest, and I'm on the committee, and I thoroughly enjoy it.

But what else do I do? Not a lot really. I used to walk, but I can't walk as far as I used to.

I can remember from my 70th birthday, you all took me to Milton Keynes, a snow slope. And I was tobogganing down the snow, do remember that? On a tray, I think it was. 

I was always ready to try anything. But I can't really remember doing anything special. I have some sailing, but, not so much recently. 

I have a go most things if they're offered, still would, but can't think I can do some many now.

Helen: What about diet, in terms of things you eat, and don't eat?

Jenny: Well, increasingly there are things I can't eat. I've never been able to get a taste for olives or lager, or figs. But I eat most things. I have a fairly balanced diet as far as I can these days, 'cause it's a bit limited on what I can eat.

But, otherwise, no, I eat well virtually anything really. Yeah. I wouldn't say I'd rule anything out. I have salads, and I have plenty of vegetables and fruit, and chips. I love chips.

Helen: The secret to a happy life. Another question then, about colours. Have you found the colours that you wear change as you've gone grey?

Jenny: No, I still found that the pastel palette, the Summer palettes, in other words, suit me the best. No, I haven't found it any different at all. But then I've gone grey very gradually, 

Helen: Do you wear like pink? Do wear like pinks and blues?

Jenny: Well, I’d say sweet pea colours, there’s reds and blues. So long as they're sort of bluey tones, I suppose.

Not yellow tones. But that hasn't changed. No.

Helen: Has the makeup that you wear changed?

Jenny: What makeup? I only use eye makeup. I just go on what I feel like doing at the time. I don't do blue eyeshadow, haven't done for a long time. I prefer browns 

Helen: I feel I used to wear lipstick when I was younger.

Jenny: Oh, I wear lipstick now. When I'm going out, I would wear lipstick. Yeah. Pale pinks, I don't wear bright colours. I've only got a small face and they don’t suit me.

Helen: When you were younger. Was it normal for people to dye their hair to cover their greys? Would you say, like in your thirties and forties and fifties?

Jenny: A few did. It was more likely to put highlights in than a full, a full colour, I think. Most of them, if they did anything, had highlights rather than a full dye. Maybe just my friends, I don't know, but yeah, not really.

Helen: But they just kept doing that until they decided to go grey

Jenny: Until they decided.

Helen: or white?

Jenny: A few had dyed, but as you said earlier, you know, they've slowly gone anyway. They've decided to get rid of it. And they look a lot better for it. 

Helen: Yeah, I think your skin it changes as well as your hair. So, if you're dyeing your hair, how it was when you were very young. It’s kind of is a bit of a mismatch with your skin.

Jenny: It's too harsh. It's too harsh. Absolutely. Yeah. I think if you can do it your best to just to go for a pale blonde. But I'm no expert on it. I've never done it.

Helen: I'd debate the blonde with you because obviously I did bleach my hair blonde and it was always a yellowy tone. You can't really avoid that with blonde. It's always like a warm yellowy tone, and that’s

Jenny: Yeah, it is.

Helen: A very bad colour for me. But I think a lot depends on your skin tone. Because for me, my hair was never long when I had it dyed. It never got much beyond shoulder length, 'cause I just looked really drawn and tired.

Jenny: Your sister has the opposite skin tone. I can remember us buying an identical sweater in red. I had a ruby red, she had a tomato. And just for curiosity, we put the opposite sweater on, and we both looked terrible. I just looked yellow, and she had enormous blue shadows under her eyes.

So, it does work. Yes. You need to follow a skin tone.

Helen: She has red hair

Jenny: She has red

Helen: fading red hair now.

Jenny: Yeah. But it's still red.

Helen: She's not getting the white. She's just going paler.

Jenny: Yeah, that's right. She's fading. Yeah. It is not as red as it was. 

My grandfather had red hair, which he keeps to keep very short. And it was like wire. So, that's sort of come down a bit down the family, I suppose. You never met him.

Helen: If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, who is currently dyeing their hair, would you have any hints and tips or advice for them?

Jenny: Certainly, go ahead with it. I mean, my one friend who's still got dyed hair, I think she’d look younger. 

In fact, we were discussing this yesterday at the coffee morning, with a lot of them who have actually gone, you know, gone grey now. And one has to dye. It depends on circumstances, 'cause she has had a cancer treatment, and lost all her hair. And when it came back, yes, she wanted to be blonde. So, she has stayed blonde. 

The only other one in the room who has an all-over dye would look younger, in my opinion, if she let it go.

And one of them has got a patch of dark on the crown of her head, and she just had that dye to match the rest, but that's it really. She says, I keep saying, has it gone enough when I can stop having a dye? So, she will go altogether when that brown patch goes. 

I would say do it, to be honest with you. Yeah. It's a lot less trouble, it's a lot cheaper. You don't have to sit there for hours in the hairdressers.

And, who cares really? It looks good. It's what It grows, isn't it? And you know, yeah. You just have to go with it. So, I would say do it.

Helen: I have no plans of going back to dyeing mine. I love it, and I'm a lot younger than you.

Jenny: I've still got brown at the back, but it'll go eventually. Much like yours really. You’re blonder at the front than the back. Yeah. Well, I can't do that. My hairs aren't long enough, but it's still fairly brown down the back. 

Helen: Well, in that case, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Jenny: Thank you very much, I’ve enjoyed it. 

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.