Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Lizzie George. In 2020, she sold her bustling six-bedroom family home, and hit the road embracing full-time motor home, living in the thick of the Pandemic. Somewhere between downsizing and discovering a more flexible way of life. She also ditched the dye. 

Hello, Lizzie. How are you?

Lizzie: I am fine. It's fabulous to be here. 

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you, can you remember what your hair was like when you were a child?

Lizzie: I had very straight brown hair. When I was a toddler apparently, I had curls, not tight curls, but curly hair. But that soon went when my grandmother, I went to stay with her, and she took me out to the hairdressers. And I had a haircut, because she was going to the hairdressers. I had a haircut and then he cut all my curls off, and they never came back.

You can imagine what my Dad said when I came home. I never had curls again, and had very straight, brown hair. Yes.

Helen: I'm told that I was born with black hair as a baby, and that it all fell out,

Lizzie: Okay.

 Helen: and then it came back like white blonde.

Lizzie: No. I've always had a mop. A mop. Yes.

Helen: And did you have it long or short as a child?

Lizzie: Oh, I always had it long either in bunches or plaits. Yeah, I always had long hair. And sometimes I'd have a fringe, and then I'd grow the fringe out, yeah, bit of a mixture. But always long, never short, never as short as I've got it now.

Helen: Did you start experiment with colouring in your teens?

Lizzie: No, no. I had brown hair. Various shades, depending on what the sun was doing. But I never experimented with dye until late twenties, early thirties. Until a few, grey hairs started coming through. And, my cousin said, oh, we've gotta do something about those. And I was led down the dyeing path. Yeah.

Helen: Can you remember when you found those first white hairs, how you felt?

Lizzie: No, I can't actually. I had a bit of a badger’s bottom on the front of my head in my forties, early fifties, and that was really obvious. But I can't remember how I felt about the few odd grey hairs. 

I don't think it bothered me, until they started getting a little bit more, and I just thought everybody dyed their hair. And I just got swayed along, because it was salt and pepper. It wasn't enough to be striking, but it was enough to look a bit dirty, I suppose. 

Yeah, it wasn't a striking salt and pepper. It was just very much brown with a hint of these grey hairs. And then this badger’s bottom that appeared on the front of my head.

Helen: Sounds like it bothered your cousin more than it bothered you?

Lizzie: I think so. Because I think she was well used to dyeing her hair. I can't remember when she first started dyeing, but she had all the setup, and she knew exactly what she was doing. So possibly, yeah., She thought I'm gonna drag this woman into the next century.

Helen: Was she a little bit older than you?

Lizzie: No, she was younger than me. But she always had, you know, her nails done, her hair done. Maybe she thought she was taking pity on me, you know, smartening me up a little bit. Maybe. I don't know what she was thinking, but I went along with it. And it felt good at the time. You know, to dye it. 

I only went to the hairdressers possibly a couple of times in 20 odd years. So, I always did a home kit. You know, I wasn't gonna spend extortionate amounts of money, so I always did a home kit, and managed to get it looking okay. 

Helen: And did you just go for like your natural colour as was?

Lizzie: Yes. I didn't go for any different colour. I was never a red, or a blue, or never went blonde. You know, kept it as natural to my natural colour as I could. Yeah. And then just to cover up those little bits of grey, because it, just looked a bit dirty. It wasn't striking enough either way. Yeah.

Helen: Did you use a permanent colour, or a temporary colour?

Lizzie: Always permanent. Yeah. And I just used to dye over the top of it. None of this, you know, just doing the roots. I just did it all. I did not read the instructions at all, and I just slapped it on, you know, all over. But it did used to fade, and wash out, even though it was permanent.

Helen: How often did you have to do it?

Lizzie: I can't remember now. Enough that the roots would be showing through an inch or something. When it was really, really obvious. When the grey was even more obvious that I had about an inch of roots.

Helen: Yeah.

Lizzie: Yeah. It wasn't too bad in the beginning, because the grey was just a smattering. So, I probably didn't do it that often. But, yeah. Things were to change.

Helen: Did it get more regular as you got more greys, in terms of how often you dyed it, or

Lizzie: I think it did. I think it did because the roots really showed then. The greyer that I got, so possibly six weeks I would just dye it. But the grey didn't start really until Lockdown. Until the Pandemic.

Helen: So, the Lockdown then,

Lizzie: Yes.

Helen: You sold your large house,

Lizzie: Yes.

Helen: moved into a motor home. 

Lizzie: Yes.

Helen: Was that literally in the middle of Lockdown, before?

Lizzie: Yes, it was in September, 2020. We had six children, and they'd, you know, grown up, and left, and this house was just too big. We decided that we would downsize. 

And my Husband was working in Brussels, he had a flat in Brussels, and we couldn't take the dog. I had a rescue dog. And he said, oh, do you want to come and live in Brussels? And I thought, oh, that'll be lovely. Couldn't get the flat for the dog. 

So, he thought, we'll buy a motor home, and we can live in Brussels, travel Europe at the weekend, and it'll all be wonderful. He says, in a Pandemic.

Helen: I'm judging by your tone that maybe it wasn't always wonderful?

Lizzie: I never got to Brussels with the dog. But we carried on with the motor home, and it was wonderful enough, that we actually went through with selling the home. And burning our bridges, if you like, burning our bridges to bricks.

Helen: How long did you stay full-time in the motor home?

Lizzie: Oh, well, we’re still in the motor home. We are pet sitting at the minute, but we still have our motor home. Yeah. That's us now until we decide we don't like it anymore.

Helen: Okay, so have you not got a house anymore?

Lizzie: No, no, no. The house went soon after we bought the motor home. When we decided that we liked it. We decided that we didn't need it anymore. None of the children were at home.

Helen: Uh huh.

Lizzie: And then they had some of the equity for deposits on homes that really suited them.

Helen: Yeah.

Lizzie: And that was nice to do that.

Helen: Yeah, that would be nice. Obviously dyeing your hair at home I'm told is very messy. I've never done it.

Lizzie: it wasn't too bad once you'd kind of got the knack of it, and you know, you've got, some towels that you know, were only for dyeing hair, and you'd got it sorted. I think it was easy. 

But when we moved into the motor home, it quickly became apparent that it wasn't going to be happening. Because I didn't have my own bathroom anymore. I just had the shower in the motor home, and that wasn't going to be conducive to doing it.

And I think I just put a bag over my head. And we were in Lockdown anyway. We weren't seeing anybody. So, I just forgot about my hair. Then we came out of Lockdown, and thought, oh, you have grey hair now.

And actually, I quite like it because it's not just salt and pepper anymore. The Badger's bottom was still, quite visible on the front of my head.

Helen: Yeah.

Lizzie: But it was quite distinctive, and I quite liked him now. So yeah, I never, bothered dyeing again.

Helen: How long was your hair before Lockdown?

Lizzie: Probably, maybe shoulder length. And it's got successively shorter.

Helen: Yeah. did you have it cut short at the end of Lockdown when you went grey or?

Lizzie: Yes. Yes, I think so. I kind of lost the Bob really, really quickly, had layers put in it. But over the last couple of years, I found a different hairdresser. Because my hair just grows all over the place. One bit grows out that way, another bit grows down and no hairdresser could actually cope with it.

But I found a really good one. And now I am really, really short, and I'm happy. And it just suits the lifestyle as well.

Helen: Yeah, I can imagine it dries an awful lot quicker.

Lizzie: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And it's that walk from the shower block to the motor home. It can be quite cold in the winter. And you don't really want long hair. You know. Yeah. So, it's much easier to manage and forget about it, and, yeah, quite enjoying it now.

Helen: How did your friends and family react to you choosing to go grey?

Lizzie: I don't think it was ever an issue really. They quite like it, now. But it wasn't as much of an issue for them I think it was for me. Because when I first started growing grey, I didn't like the grey because I felt like, well, old people have grey hair. Or, that's just a, you know, figment of my imagination that I gave. 

But I felt that it made me older. Whereas actually, and that's why I used to dye it, but now I feel when I'm grey, I feel younger, than when I had brown hair. Which is really just really bizarre when you come to think of it now. That I feel, and I feel I look younger as well. Don't know why that is, but, yeah, a bit bizarre.

Helen: I think part of it's because you feel a lot freer, and probably a little bit more relaxed with your appearance. I think, for me, certainly when I was dyeing my hair, there's was always a low grade level of root stress. 

Like you'd have your hair coloured, and for maybe a week you couldn't see any sign of the white. And then from then on until you had it dyed the next time, you were always aware that there was some white there,

Lizzie: Yeah, I think so.

Helen: sitting in the background, and it was always kind of like you did just feel a little bit scruffy, as soon as you had any amount of root.

Lizzie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now it's no problem. It's just getting whiter and whiter.

Helen: I think the other thing as well is your complexion changes, so it isn't just your hair that's changed. Your complexion also gets paler, so the

Lizzie: I’ve got this halo as well. So, if you were to look at the back of my head, there's a halo around the back where it's quite dark. 

Helen: Yep.

Lizzie: And now my hairdresser, she just uses that as a kind of, well, we'll do a number four at the back, and we'll stop at the channel of dark. And then we'll do it spiky on top. Yeah, she says it's a lot easier now she's following the halo that I've got in my head.

Helen: My hair is also a lot darker at the back than the front. 

Lizzie: Yeah.

Helen: I've got very, very white streaks around the front and underneath, but not so much the rest of it.

Lizzie: Yeah. My dark channel is just really quite noticeable.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah. How would you say you feel about where you are at in the ageing process?

Lizzie: I am reaching 60, and I feel younger now. And I feel like I'm embracing, getting to 60. I'm doing loads of things. And I feel like I'm embracing my next decade, in a way that I didn't when I was coming up to 50. I thought, oh my gosh, this is old now, kind of thing. But now I just, yeah. Go for it.

Helen: What sorts of things have changed then between 50 and 60, in terms of the types of things that you're thinking and doing?

Lizzie: Well, we still had children at home when I was in my fifties. And I think now I'm just going places on my own. I'm travelling more on my own. I'm exploring. And yeah, I'm just not gonna let the menopause, if you like, get in the way. Yeah. Because it didn't go well for me, and my children, and my family.

Helen: Oh, the menopause?

Lizzie: Yeah. No, no, not, not at all. So, we'll gloss over that.

Helen: I find it such a fascinating subject, because some people get it really, really bad. And some people, like me, I had a few hot flushes and that's it. It's so weird how different it is for people.

Lizzie: Yeah. It wasn't like that for me.

Helen: No, you're not the first person to say that either.

Lizzie: Yeah. Yeah.

Helen: Are you doing anything in terms of health and fitness to keep yourself in shape? 

Lizzie: Not as much as I would like. I was going to Pilates, and, Yoga, and things before. But I haven't really done that since the Pandemic. And I haven't really picked it back up again. I mean, I walk every day because we are looking after dogs, and I used to have a dog of my own. 

But as far as kind of going to the gym. I am thinking, what's the gym? I wouldn't be able to tell you where one was. But it's something that I have been thinking about. I've been listening to quite a few podcasts on the menopause, and bone health, and thinking that that is something that I should, could, look at.

Helen: I guess for you, just logistically, if you are frequently moving around, it's kind of hard to find somewhere. 'cause I think the easiest way to stick with that kind of thing is it becomes a routine for you. 

Lizzie: Exactly.

Helen: And if your routine keeps changing 'cause you're moving. 

Lizzie: Yeah.

Helen: Then it is more of a challenge. And it's not as if you've got enough space in a motor home to do Yoga or Pilates at home, for instance.

Lizzie: Exactly. It's all right in the summer, you can throw your mat on the floor, and you know, have a go outside. But there is no room in the motor home to be doing anything like that. So, I think I have got out of the routine. And, you know, classes expect you to take a subscription to sessions, and that's not something that fits with me. So, I've got to find something else. 

We're pet sitting all over the winter now. This Winter we went to America, and we were doing an awful lot of travelling. The previous winter we went to Spain. But this year we've decided to stay in this country, and do pet sitting. So, there is space now that I could put something on the tele, and do some online classes. Yeah.

Helen: So how long is each of your pet sitting sessions for?

Lizzie: Well, I've got about six between now and the end of February. So, this is a month. And then others are just a few days, or a couple of weeks, three weeks. Get over New Year, and then we've got a two month sit, January, February. So quite varied, and quite varied pets, 

Helen: And is it all over the country, or is it just in one area?

Lizzie: Yeah, no, all over. So, what we've done is we've designed our route to visit children. So instead of sleeping on their sofa bed, and I know how awful that is, because I gave them the sofa bed. 

We are staying in other people's houses looking after their pets. And then we can get to see our children as well, because there's six of them. They're scattered all over the country. And, it seemed a good, idea to combine that. 

Yeah, so I did three winters, and then I decided I didn't want to do another winter with the snow, and live in the motor home. So, I had to find a different solution. Travelling was great for the last couple of years, but we've decided to do pet sitting as our winter solution this year. Yeah, let's get a bit of everything.

Helen: Okay. A different question then. I guess you had to vastly downsize your wardrobe when you moved into the motor home?

Lizzie: Yes. We lived in the house for about hmm, 20 years, and I think I probably filled most of the cupboards. I had a craft supply that would rival a shop, you know, my wool collection. And yeah, I had to downsize. It didn't happen overnight. There was an awful lot of downsizing. 

And I had to decide what I needed for the life that I now wanted to lead. There was a bit of grief over the life, that I no longer had. Although I did want to move into the motor home, I really loved my bookshelves, and my books. But that wasn't going to be possible. So yeah, we opened a bookshop for a while, second-hand bookshop, and got rid of them that way. 

Yeah, so an awful lot of downsizing, 'cause there is really not an awful lot of space. So, I have a minimum amount of clothes now. Nothing for a what if moment. There aren't any what ifs? I just have the clothes for now.

And in fact, when we went to America, we just took hand luggage. Two weeks-worth of clothes in a carry-on bag, and that's what we travelled with. So, I know that I can live with the minimum amount of stuff, and yeah, no sticking anything in the hold for me.

Helen: Curious then what are your essentials?

Lizzie: Ooh my essentials. I have a coffee mug. Granny's teapot, that's one of my essentials. It's a silver teapot. It did have a Bakelite lid on it, but this generation broke the Bakelite lid. So, it's got a knob off a chest of drawers now.

And I just love that, because I can remember my grandmother making tea in it. It's all black inside and it's probably older than I am. So that's one of my essentials because I think it's beautiful and I love loose tea, so it's useful as well as being beautiful. 

I've also got, this is a pencil sharpener that we used to find on the desk of teachers. Well, it certainly was in the seventies when I was growing up. Because I love pencils. I love collecting pencils from wherever we go on our travels now. So that's an essential. But I didn't have room to take it to America with me. I had this awful little thing, which didn't sharp in anything, but, hey ho, that's all I had. So, I love my pencils.

Oh, my books are kind of creeping back in, but I'm gonna have to cull a bit more, because no room for bookshelves. I love food, so I have got a couple of cupboards of food, I love cooking. And I do love crochet still, so I've always got a project on the go, and then I just gift it when I finish it.

Helen: Okay.

Lizzie: Yeah, yeah. No room for lots of blankets and things anymore.

Helen: No. I am gonna ask you one last question.

Lizzie: Ooh.

Helen: If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice or tips would you have for them?

Lizzie: I would say do it. Because if you're thinking about it, maybe that means you're not happy with how things are for you. So, I would say just go for it, and embrace it. 

It was easier in Lockdown because I didn't see anybody for six months, and you didn't have to put your Zoom camera on, so they couldn't see what was happening.

I think it's not gonna be instant. And there could be times when you just want to dye it because you can see the roots. But persevere because when you come out the other end, you are going to love it. Absolutely love it. And embrace it. Go for it.

And actually, expect the texture to change. I hadn't quite expected the texture to be quite so wispy with my grey hair, and course. But you know, that's just one of the things, and maybe it wouldn't happen for that person. I'm saying just go for it.

Helen: I do think it varies, 'cause my hair is actually a lot softer and silkier now than it was. 'cause I used to have it bleached blonde, so it was very dry and brittle. 

Lizzie: Yes. Yeah.

Helen: Which it's not anymore. But I have heard a lot of people lose quite a lot of hair in menopause. 

Lizzie: Yeah.

Helen: And they find the texture changes then anyway, irrespective of the colour.

Lizzie: Yeah, maybe that's what happened as well. But I just love the colour now. And I love the fact that I've gone shorter, because I just don't need to think about it, you know. It's so easy. And I love the colour.

Helen: I mean, you really don't sound like you've got a lot of room for high maintenance in the lifestyle that you have.

Lizzie: No. So, it's probably just as well, I've come to love it. Otherwise, I'd be spending an awful lot of money at the hairdressers, getting it dyed all the time. And, I've got far more important things to be spending money on.

Helen: Yeah. I'm gonna say, thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Lizzie: Thank you so much.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.