Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Sandra Bird, having relocated this year to Suffolk, Sandra is now rebuilding her Chinese medicine practice as an acupuncturist and herbalist, whilst fully reawakening to and owning her intuitive witchiness. She helps women get to the root of their health conditions, gently guiding them to fully become who they naturally are.

Hello, Sandra. How are you?

Sandra: Hello Helen. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. And very well.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you, can you remember finding your first white hair?

Sandra: I dunno if I can remember specifically a moment of finding the first one. I do remember that it was around about age 30, that I found grey hairs, and started going grey. 

My hair at that time was its natural colour at that age, a very, very dark brown. And so, the white, they were actually quite white, or they looked it against, you know, the contrast with the very dark brown. 

And so, they did sort of jump out at me, when they were there. But I don't specifically remember the first one, if that makes sense.

Helen: Do you remember how you felt about those first few?

Sandra: I don't remember it being a big issue for me. 

At that time, I would've not long had my first child, would've been my daughter. And I was sort of fairly comfortable, you know, I wasn't feeling under any pressure to regain my pre-pregnancy weight or any of that normal stuff. Those pressures that we can sometimes be subject to.

I don't remember that being a real sort of issue for me finding white hairs. My mother had gone white grey, probably around 30. And by the time I was 30, she was probably almost fully white hair. If not fully, then, you know, almost, as near as damnit. As close to being fully white as you could be. So, it felt quite natural to me, I think. 

But when I really did begin to notice it was when there was more of it. And because my hair was so dark in colour. I think once, I'd got to a stage where it was like, you know, the salt and pepper effect, then I felt that it made my hair look very dull.

And that was when I first started to sort of, use any colour in it. And I used to then sort of use a lovely dark shade of sort of auburn-y red, which I used for quite a long time actually. 

And yeah, my main sort of reason for doing that was because I felt it made me look dull. And it made me feel a bit dull. Because of that, I think when I looked in the mirror, I just felt, ugh, you know. 

My hair had always been fairly shiny because it was the dark, and that shine was sort of taken away from it, because of the salt and pepper mix of the white with the dark brown.

Helen: Can you remember what sort of age you were when you started dyeing it?

Sandra: It would've been in my thirties. 

I had my three babies all in three years. The oldest one was three years just two weeks before the third one was born. So, I had the three of them all very close together. And I can't remember at which stage of then it was when I started dyeing it, but it would've been within that three-years, I think.

Once it had started to go grey, it became salt and peppery fairly quickly, I think. So, it quickly went from there just being one or two to it being that salt and pepper mix that just looked dull. And that the lovely red dye gave it its shine back.

Helen: Was the red dye permanent or semi-permanent?

Sandra: It was permanent colour. I used to do it at home, but it was a permanent colour. 

But then of course you have to keep doing it, don't you? When you've done it, you have to keep doing it. Because you know it grows back through. My hair has always grown fairly quickly, so it seemed like a never-ending sort of task of having to redo my hair.

Which, you know, for some time you think, yeah, that's really worth it. And then, you get to a point where you just think, oh, can I continue with this? But I did continue with it for quite a long time. 

And I think I was well into my forties, probably mid-forties before I sort of let it grow out a little bit. And said to my hairdresser at the time, you know, how evenly spread is the grey through the dark brown, you know? 

And she said it is pretty even all the way over. All the way through. And I think at that point I asked her to just cut it all short. 

I've always gone from, or several times during my life, I've gone from sort of short hair to long hair, to sort of mid length hair, and several times I've gone from fairly long hair to very short. And so that transition from long hair to very, very short, sort of almost instantly is not something that I am scared of. 

And I just said to her, cut it all off. Let's have a look. Let's see for myself how well spread it is. And by then there was more white than dark. And it looked better. It didn't look as dull as it had previously, and it looked better. And so, I left it like that for a while. 

And then experimented with different colours at different times. I think sometimes you just notice it more when you look in the mirror, or as a reflection of your own state of mind, I think, and your health where you are at that moment. It feels different to you at different stages.

There have been times where I've had health issues that have made me feel less than good. And I think you sometimes just feel like you need a bit of brightening up. And I have used hair colour as a way of just, you know, having a lift. Just giving myself a little bit of a lift, when I've not been feeling at my best.

So, I think then probably sort of mid to late forties, I tried lighter colours. I did sort of more blondie type colours, although they were never completely blonde. But yeah, so I've tried quite a few different colours in my time. 

And again, after a few years of that I just decided, no, let's just go completely white again. And by that time there was much, much less dark in it. Almost completely white. I do still have a few darker bits at the back, but not really so as you'd notice, unless I lift my hair up. 

Not long before COVID, I think it was, I had let my hair grow really long again. And it was completely white, completely grey and white. And I liked it. I really loved it like that. Yeah, I just really loved it. 

And I think that was part of my reawakening, and my accepting more my intuitive sort of side. And that style and length of hair just seemed to sort of go with that.

And of course, our hair is always a reflection of our health. And, in 2021, I succumbed and got COVID, and I got it quite badly. And the overriding symptom with that then was fatigue. I lost my appetite completely. I could still taste things, but I lost my appetite. But the overriding symptom was fatigue.

And I stayed in bed for about 10 days, and I just did not have the strength to shower on my own. My husband was helping me shower and everything. And I washed my hair, and then just not have the strength to do anything with it. And I just tied it back, and up into a loop. And it became very tangled. 

When I did finally sort of let it down again, we just could not get the tangles out, and my husband cut it for me. Which I was not particularly happy about. But he cut it, just to get the tangles out. 

And it was then not short, short, but reasonably short. For quite a while after that it took a while for my hair to grow back properly. It had thinned completely, and just feeling at the back of my hair, it just felt like there was nothing there.

It's always been very fine, but there's always been lots of it. And at that time, it just felt like there was half of it missing. I suppose over the year after that it, grew back and it recovered. Since then, I have sort of kept it in a Bob, you know, mid length Bob.

Occasionally I will put in it, a bright pink, or purple, or sometimes a mix of both. Again, it's sort of at times when I just feel I need a little bit of a lift. But I will go for a colour that is obviously a dye, obviously a fake colour. 

Those colours are sort of wash out, so they're lovely and vivid when you first put them in. And then they just gradually wash out over a few washes. In my case, over a few weeks, they sort of gradually wash out. Which is a nicer way for them to go out, I think to fade, because you still have just little bits of it in there.

I've not done one of those now for over a year. Just over a year.

Helen: When you were in your forties give yourself a lift, 

Sandra: Yes.

 Helen: was that just natural colours or was that the bright colours?

Sandra: It would normally be something that was, you know, a bit red, or sometimes a sort of, orangey blonde. But not a bright orange. Probably not explaining that very well. Not describing it very well, 

Helen: A strawberry blonde?

Sandra: but a sort of, yeah, that sort of, that sort of colour. But they would be colours that would look fairly natural, rather than the bright colours. 

I do remember the first time I used one of the bright colours. would've been round about 2016. And I think it was not long before Christmas, and I just thought, yeah, let's go a vivid sort of fuchsia pink, that sort of colour. And that was the first one I used. Yeah. 

Around that time or shortly after that, I did get my hairdresser to do, like a rainbow sort of colours where she mixed. There was some green, there was some blue, there was some red, pink, purple. You know, there was, quite a few colours, all in layers, and that looked very effective.

But again, it can be quite an investment for a short term. Looks very good when it's been done, but doesn't last an awful long time.

Helen: in terms of how you dress, are you dressing in similar sorts of bright colours to what you're playing with in your hair?

Sandra: I do, yes, I do like a bit of colour. My favourite go-to colours are red, vivid pink and purple. I really love those colours, and I will always have a little bit of red on somewhere. 

My glasses frames are red, and the arms on them are purple. So, I will always have a little bit of colour on. So, like for instance, today I have my glasses on, which are red and purple. I've got leggings on, and a pink t-shirt. And then I've got a red dress. Pink cardigan. 

You know, there will always be something. And more often than not, I really love that sort of, clash of vivid colours. You know, I will often wear the sort of bright colours together. You know, ones that we would've been told not to put together.

And sometimes I think it's because of that reason, you know, because we are told not to wear this or not to wear that. And I think we need to just go with what we feel is right for us.

You know, you see all these posts and things, saying what women over 50 should not wear. And I think actually, you know, whatever the occasion, whatever your age, wear whatever you want. 

Because it's about how you feel, isn't it, wearing those colours? And if a colour can really give you a good lift, and I mean some people call it dopamine dressing, don't they? Let's dress to lift our mood. If it helps us, then let's do that because, certainly does have an impact on how we feel.

And being a practitioner of holistic medicine as well then, you know, we don't separate in Chinese medicine, the mind and the emotions from the physical health. You know, it's not just a matter of being connected. We are a whole human being with emotions, and with thoughts, and our spirit is included in that. 

And if, we are feeling dull, then that's gonna have an impact on our health, and vice versa. So yeah, I fully love to embrace colour. But as I say, for the last year, I've not put any colour in my hair, and at the moment I feel that I won't be colouring it again.

But who knows?

Helen: I'm a blue person. I love blue, but also, everyone's like you're very calm. So, I do think the two are connected, 'cause I've heard blues a colour of calm.

Sandra: I do remember, when I was in my twenties, my sort of go-to colour was emerald green. And I had lots of things that were emerald green in my twenties. I do have a couple of things now which are green, but not many. I think we just are attracted to what we feel we need, especially once we've started doing it. 

I would always say to people, if you are not comfortable with wearing bright colours in your clothes, or a colour that you really like, you know, if there's a colour that you think, I would really love to wear that, but you are not confident enough to go the whole sort of outfit. Then just start with a scarf. Start with something small, and sort of build up from there.

I suppose it sounds like I'm contradicting myself really, doesn't it, saying to wear colour, and yet embrace the white, grey hair?

Helen: Don't necessarily think they contradict. I think both of them are saying drama to me. Because having pure white hair is actually quite a dramatic look, in the same way that wearing very bright colours is.

Sandra: I suppose it is. Yeah. I've not thought of it that way. I've not thought of it that way. But yeah, I guess it is. 

Helen: Colour-wise, basically just embrace your vibe. So, if your vibe is a certain colour and you feel vibrations are right, then they probably are for you and your mood.

Sandra: Yes, I think you're right. I think you're right. And I think anything that we can do to help ourselves feel right is good. 

In Chinese medicine we have this term longevity, and you know, the ideas behind that is not just living long, but living well. You know, being healthy, being vibrant, or being as energetic as you can be. 

I think, you know, anything that we can do that, helps that. I mean obviously look after our physical health, and our mental health, but you know, anything that makes us feel good, is to be welcomed and to be encouraged. 

I very rarely wear makeup, and most of my skincare and everything is all very natural. So yeah, I think whatever. Colour we can bring in, whether it is actually true colour, or whether it's just the colour of our personality. Then, you know, let's do what we can to support that. And just do what makes us feel good.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Sandra: I think I would have to just say, go with it. Go with what feels right for you.

One of my mantras has always been, you know, that nothing is permanent. We can always change what we don't like, and, you know, try it. As I say, I've several times flitted between sort of accepting the grey, and covering it with colour, or just some of it with colour.

There are no rules, and the people who tell you that there are rules are lying. So, you know, just go with the flow. Go with what feels right for you. Try it for a while. And if you don't like it, then go back to what you were doing, or try something new. And just see how you get on.

I think eventually you reach a stage where you think, yeah, I really like this now. I don't think I'll be colouring my hair again, but who knows? I would never say never, because who knows? 

I might just get up one day and look in the mirror and think, no, I need a bit of colour, other than my clothes, let's just do something. But I don't think so now. 

I think go with what feels right at whatever moment you are in.

Helen: Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you.

Sandra: It's been lovely

Helen: Enjoy rest of your day.

Sandra: Thank you, Helen. You too.

Helen: Cheers.

Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.