Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye. 

Today I'm joined by Hulya Erbeyli, she's an accredited leadership and business coach based in London. She supports women in owning their power and leading with authenticity, confidence, and presence. Her choice to let her hair go naturally grey as part of the same journey of self-acceptance and freedom she inspires in others through her work.

Hulya: Hello, Helen.

Helen: How are you doing?

Hulya: I'm very well. Thank you.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you a little bit about what was your hair like when you were child?

Hulya: Wow. Yes. Feels like a long time ago. But I clearly remember it was wavy, and curly, and dark hair, dark brown. And there were times I used to join my grandma with the Henna ritual, but because my hair was so dark, it wouldn't really get that Henna colour. So, it was always dark.

Helen: And was it long?

Hulya: Yes, it was long. But then I had a bit of trauma around it, when it was cut really short without my consent. I think I must have been around five or six. Yeah, there was an issue, and my father took me just man barber, and my hair was basically shaved. 

So, it was a bit of trauma around that. So still I can't cut my hair short. But yeah, it was a story of how we associate with our hair, even as a little girl.

Helen: So why did he do that?

Hulya: I think I had lice in my hair.

Helen: Okay. Lice. Yeah.

Hulya: Lice. Yes. And it seemed like a shortcut solution to my mother. So, they just took me, and they just shaved my hair. And it was a big, big thing. And it kind of shaped my story about my relationship with my hair ever since.

Helen: So, would you say your hair is a big part of your self-image?

Hulya: I think so, yes. It is actually, yes.

Helen: So, did you immediately grow your hair again then after that episode?

Hulya: Yes, yes. And I think they realize how sad I was afterwards. So, I think after that I always had a long hair, not shorter than my shoulder length. So, I always had a curly, dark side of long hair.

Helen: Can you remember when you found the first white hair?

Hulya: I think it was in my early thirties as far as I remember. But the interesting thing is I had already started dyeing my hair, so it wasn't easy for me to notice. But probably early thirties I realized that there were some grey hairs. 

Which meant I was dyeing already, so I had to now continue dyeing my hair because I had grey hair. So, it was almost like conditioning and autopilot. I didn't even question about it.

Helen: So were you using Henna at that stage, or were you experimenting with other things?

Hulya: No, I was experimenting, because in my twenties I was in into corporate life. And with that, there was already these conditionings around looking really well cared, having highlights and high heels. And so, I think it was just part of the uniform, and identity that I had in that time. 

So, I had already started having highlights in my hair in my twenties. So, I was already dyeing, and playing to make my image even more professional and corporate, I guess.

Helen: So, did you think you would be taken more seriously by doing that to your hair then, in a corporate environment?

Hulya: I think so, because you are shaped by the people around you and you just look around and having just a dark, curly hair just looked a bit boring. And I had to almost like uplevel my image by changing my hair. Which feels a bit silly when I look at it now, but at the time, it felt like the right thing to do.

You're in your twenties, you just step into this career, so you experiment with the clothes, with the hair, with the makeup. So, yes, I was immediately into playing with my hair, having highlights, dye, and I was in that wagon very shortly after I joined the corporate world.

Helen: I find that quite interesting 'cause I didn't play so much with my hair. But I can remember in one of my early jobs when I was still dressing in a slightly studenty way, and I was basically told that if I went out and bought some suits and started looking smarter, I would get a pay raise.

Hulya: Oh wow.

Helen: And it didn't have any bearing on what I was doing work-wise. It was just you need to be portraying the right image.

Hulya: Oh right. Yeah. I think we all find our ways of trying to fit in, or trying to find way, navigate up the ladder of the pay scale also, I think. Yeah.

Helen: When you first started seeing the white hairs, did you find your roots quite stressful?

Hulya: Yes, yes. I mean, it wasn't even a question because as I said, I was already dyeing my hair, so when I saw my grey hairs, it was just autopilot that I just had to keep doing it even more often now. It was just another task on my to to-do list.

So, I can't even answer your question because it was so immediate and reactive decision that I already made there and then, and I didn't really look into it consciously.

Helen: And were you colouring it yourself or did you get it done at a hairdresser?

Hulya: No, I always got it done with a hairdresser. So, it meant monthly visit to a hairdresser, lots of money, and all that. Upon until the Lockdown actually.

Helen: So that was the catalyst for you questioning whether to keep dyeing your hair?

Hulya: Funny enough, it wasn't. Here I was locked in, and my greys are coming out. Instead of questioning it, I start searching for ways how I can dye my hair at home, actually. And I was on the line with my hairdresser and video calling him, FaceTiming. Ordering kits from internet, and he was telling me why this, and do that.

And funny enough, I immediately learned how to dye my hair at home with the help of my son. But it's something I thought I would never be able to do. But I learned it very quickly. 

So, it wasn't still there with me to question about whether I want to grey or not.

Helen: So, it was more a, I can't get it under the hairdressers, I must do it myself.

Hulya: Yes, so it was something to be done. Now I don't have an access to hairdresser, so I have to find another solution. 

Being a rescuer and problem solver, I just totally focused on how do I do that at home now, without having access to a hairdresser? And I solved it, and I learned it.

Helen: So, when did you decide to stop dyeing it?

Hulya: It wasn't until last year. I'm into my transitioning 11 months now. So, end of November, it's going to be a year where I had my big awakening moment. So, I'm still in the process, one year into process. 

So, it was a morning of workshop I was going to deliver. And I wake up in the morning just about to have my shower, and I realize my greys are coming out. And immediately I'm like I have to dye my hair, I have to dye my hair, yet I need to have a shower and leave home.

And here I am engaged, trying to dye my hair. It's almost like I'm trying to hide something from the world. And I think it, the first time it really kicked me. And I just stopped and I asked myself, what am I doing here? Who am I trying to hide from what? All these questions.

And then I just stopped there and I said, no, I'm not doing this to myself, or for myself, for me. So, who am I doing this for? And I'm all about integrity, being holistic, having an inner alignment, being authentic. 

And now what I do without even questioning, I just do it out of autopilot. And yeah, I think it was the moment I start asking questions. And of course, the questions, follow question, questions, follow question, and then I said, okay, no more. I'm not doing this. Not until I have a clear answer at least.

Because I know this is not out of my choice or free will. I'm just doing it out of autopilot now. I'm all about being able to choose freely. I appreciate any woman who chooses to dye her hair, but my choice wasn't a conscious choice, I was just doing it out of autopilot. 

So, it was the moment I said, no more dyeing until I find clear answers to this. And I didn't know if I was gonna go grey, or not dye anymore. But being a personal development and holistic person, I just needed some answers before I could move on with my dyeing hair, whether it was a free choice or not.

But that was the last time I dyed my hair.

Helen: And how many years had you been dyeing your hair at that point?

Hulya: About 20 years, maybe a little bit more than 20 actually.

Helen: Yeah, it becomes a real hamster wheel, doesn't it? You don't even think, you just, you're on it.

Hulya: Yes. And you just do it out of autopilot. It's like another daily task almost. You just have to get it done with. Yeah,

Helen: So, the grow out itself, did you just decide you weren't gonna dye again, and leave it?

Hulya: It was a big process in terms of the practical things I could do or I could not do. But also, for me, there was the emotional side of it. A big one also. 

So honestly, I didn't have any good example around me, and I didn't know what was the way forward. The thing that stopped me, as I said, was just finding my inner alignment, but until then, I thought.

I went into finding this hair mascara, and the sprays. And so, for the first few weeks I went into all these temporary solutions of just covering up basically until I found my answers. 

And then I start researching, and I start realizing there are so many options that I can move forward. And it was the time I decided, okay, I'm not dyeing no more. But I wasn't sure what was the next path I could follow. And it was the moment I start searching, and YouTubing, and everything else, then I realized there are so many options. 

And when I saw the transitioning, dyeing your hair into silver immediately. It seemed like a quick fix to me, and I wanted to go for that solution. Okay, tomorrow I'm gonna become a grey, and it's all sorted and fixed. Then I can continue looking like a cool, wise woman now. 

But yeah, when I went into that route of exploring and researching, it was just not an option for my hair. Because it's already been dyed for 20 years, and they said it's just not gonna last. It's only for a couple of weeks, and then it'll wash out, and then I had to cross out that. But I really experimented with that idea for about probably couple of months. 

And in the meantime, I was still spraying, mascaraing. And yeah, it was at the end, I just had to go cold turkey basically, because yeah, I, just didn't have any other choice. I just couldn't find anything else that was possible for me, so I just let it be.

Helen: I'm guessing, given what you told me about when you were a five, having it cut very short was never an option for you.

Hulya: Yes, exactly. You see, I don't even see it as an option when I talk about options. Because I saw it people just shave, or really cut short, but that wasn't an option for me. I'd rather have all this messy look than having a really short hair.

Helen: People make different choices. I didn't have mine cut very short. I had it cut sort of jaw length Bob at one point just to get rid of the colour.

Hulya: Yes. I will do that once I get to that stage, but still, I have some time for that, I think.

Helen: So how are you feeling about the two-tone look at the moment then?

Hulya: I am actually getting more and more excited about it, because It's really different. What I see is defined as salt and pepper, isn't it? I'm not all white or grey, but finally it's like I'm meeting my new self. There are bits is more white patches, and then I've got this dark patches on the top. So, it's like I'm remeeting myself again, and it's an exciting journey.

But initially it was like a very rebellious act. No one actually approved my decision, funny enough, including my mother. At one stage, she even wanted to pay for my hairdresser, so I would go and get my hair done properly. I didn't have in my world, so many examples. So, it felt like really a rebellious act.

And there was some stage that I had to really declare on social media that I'm going grey now, it's my decision. And that's what feels aligned and authentic to me now. And yeah, I had to really publicly declare my decision at some stage.

Helen: A couple of questions then. Does your Mum still dye her hair?

Hulya: No, not anymore. She's 86, but she thinks it's too young to not dye your hair at my age, I think she only, I dunno, maybe 10 years ago, eight years ago, she stopped dyeing her hair. She's 86.

Helen: Yeah. And how did your friends and family react?

Hulya: Funny enough, all my female friends. They were all about, oh, you're gonna look old and it's too early. Why are you rushing? You have your grey hair, you'll have it anyway, but just do a bit more and it's gonna affect you finding a partner or not finding a partner. And yeah, my female friends were more on that side. 

But funny enough, I've got more support from men, and they were saying like, oh, it looks really cool. It's very courageous of you. I was so surprised I was expecting the other way around. But I got more support from men than my women friends. Actually.

Helen: That is interesting 'cause I was chatting to a man, a networking thing a few months ago and he was like, why do women colour their hair?

Hulya: I mean, to be honest, they don't even notice it, I think as much as we do as women. I dunno. That was my impression anyway.

Helen: They nearly all feel comfortable going grey.

Hulya: Yes. 

It was a big journey in terms of managing the reactions, and responses of the people around me also. That was like really good few months, six months into my journey, and I just kept getting different questions.

Helen: And are they more supportive now that it's a bit longer?

Hulya: Now? Yes. The way it's coming out and it's more obvious, I can't hide it anymore. Now I begin to hear things like, oh, it's really nice. I would've liked to do it, but my husband wouldn't allow, or my friends would not support me, or, yeah, they're just all this external excuses. 

But I feel like I'm one of the first ones, frontiers in my community at least doing this. So I'm proud of myself now. I wasn't initially because I didn't really know what I was going for. I had a lot of periods where I was confused. I didn't know where I was going, but now I'm clear and I'm proud of myself, and I'm beginning to really love my new hair.

Helen: I think it's interesting that you were initially covering it up while you decided still. I think a lot of people kind of make the choice, and then they go for it. Whereas you were still thinking about it, and really wanting to be sure that you were aligned.

Hulya: Yes. Maybe people consider it before they actually stop dyeing it. But I never considered it until that morning. 

I'm a manifesting generator, meaning I learn from experience. So, it's only while I was doing it, and I got this question. But before I never questioned should I dye my hair, not dye my hair, since I didn't have many examples around me either. So, it wasn't even a question for me.

But one morning while I was trying to dye my hair in a rush in a limited time, it was the moment I asked myself, what am I doing here? What is this? So, yeah, it's something I knew I didn't wanna do, but I didn't know what was the solutions and directions. So, until I found my clarity, yeah, I continue covering it up.

Helen: And did you continue to dye it yourself after Lockdown?

Hulya: Yes.

Helen: yeah, rather than going back to the hairdresser?

Hulya: Until last year. And then there was a moment that I was dyeing every three weeks or so, because I mean, the side lines are so white. I mean, you dye it, after a week or so, you can actually see that line. So, it was like, if I had a special event, a business event, I would dye it in two weeks sometimes. It's, crazy that, yeah.

Helen: I think we think we'll be judged badly for having roots, 

Hulya: Yes.

Helen: which is why we cover them.

Hulya: Yes. And I was judging myself and when I see that, but now, yes. And to be honest, I think that's the worst part of transitioning when you have roots showing up. But once it starts growing out, it's much more natural and beautiful. 

But initially, when you have just this line. Yes, it looks a bit, I dunno, I don't have judgments around it, but I feel like either go natural or if you're gonna dye it, dye it properly. Sorry, it sounds very judgmental, but that's how I see it.

Helen: A lot of people have said to me like the first three inches of the grow is the hardest. Especially the first like inch, inch and a half, because at that point they feel like they're judged for being lazy, for not having made an appointment to get it coloured.

Hulya: Yes. I think that was the period I was covering it.

Helen: After that it becomes obvious what you're doing. So, it's a different conversation.

Hulya: Yes, you can't cover it anymore, and now you have to come out publicly. What's going on through?

Helen: I can see you've got your hair down today. Do you normally have it down, or do you tie it back sometimes?

Hulya: I like having it down. Yes, I do. As I said, it's part of who I am my hair is. Actually, it's usually much longer, but I'm kind of trying to cut it so that I can actually get all the dyed bits out.

Helen: Yeah, which is what I did. It was kind of, you eventually reach a point. It was just like, I don't wanna see the diet bits anymore. 

Hulya: Yeah.

Helen: They have to go, how short dare I go and still feel like me? 

Hulya: Yes, I will go short once I know that I can have it almost like shoulder length. I'll keep cutting until that.

Helen: Are you using any special shampoos and things while you're growing out?

Hulya: I'm in the period that I'm still experimenting and researching. Because I'm afraid that there is a lot of opinions around it's gonna get yellowish, or rusty. So, I've just began using the purple mask once in a while. 

I just continue with my normal shampoo that I was using sulphate free one. It's only now I'm just beginning to use that purple mask. I'm experimenting with that at moment.

Helen: I've never used a purple shampoo.

Hulya: I'm using the mask.

Helen: So, is that like a conditioner? 

Hulya: Yes.

Helen: And how are you finding the condition of your hair as you grow it out?

Hulya: I think the texture of my hair is very different than my dyed hair. Some of my curl is coming back, but it's also becoming a bit more fizzy also, I think. So, I'm still in the process of exploring that also. But some things are changing, and I'm meeting my new hair again.

So, I still use some styler when I dry it. So yeah, let's see. But I stopped doing like keratin treatment and everything else that I was doing with my dyed hair. So, what will I need from now on? I'm not quite sure yet. I just go a bit as little as possible, until I discover what's going on in my hair, and how is my new hair basically.

Helen: How do you think your image is gonna change generally? Are you gonna change anything else, or is it just gonna be your hair?

Hulya: Interesting enough, I feel more motivated to go to gym, and working on my health and wellbeing. So, I've been working with a nutritionist since then. So, 2025 has really been a physical transitioning year for me in terms of going more healthy, fit, and more organic and natural, I think.

I start making my own creams at home with natural essential oils. So, trying to eat more healthy. So, everything kind of comes in the same package, I think. It's not only about my hair, but all of my body. I kind of have a more motivation and focus to take care of actually.

Helen: Okay, so you're kind of moving away from the set aesthetic, I guess, and more towards how am I gonna age healthily?

Hulya: Exactly. Exactly. And also, I have so many friends that they do Botox, fillings, and all kinds of different treatments. I'm not against them, and I did try a few things. But it's just not for me. 

I'm more of a natural person and I feel more aligned. Also, feeling wise, I just want to feel my face. I want to feel my body. Rather than look good, I want to feel good actually.

Helen: Which is an interesting way of putting it. 'cause I think you can look good and have grey hair without trying to look younger. Which is kind of so set in the Western world in terms of to look good, you need to look young. 

Hulya: Yeah, that's another conditioning, isn't it? 

Helen: Yeah.

Hulya: I keep asking myself, why are we so pushed or encouraged to look younger and younger, regardless of what age you are. Somehow, we are always invited to look younger. If you use this cream, you look younger. If you do this, you're gonna look younger. But why do we want to look younger?

I mean, we can have another debate around that, but I want to enjoy my life. Because this age that I am in at the moment, I'm never gonna be this age again. So why not enjoy this age, rather than trying to go back to five years earlier or 10 years earlier? 

Helen: I am gonna ask you one last question, given that you are in the middle of your grow out. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what tips and advice would you have for them?

Hulya: I would say it's not an easy journey. So first of all, you need to find your inner reference of why you want to go grey. Because that's always gonna be the point you need to come back to. If you just go it with external references, you may get lost in the way, or you may lose your motivation, or you may bounce back. 

So always find your inner reference of why to start with. And then take a step at a time. And there is no right or wrong way. But just find your own path, which feels right to you, and which is more practical for you also, because we all have different environment, different community, different work conditions.

So, find something that feels easy and practical for you. And be patient. It's a long journey.

Helen: It is indeed, and there are good days and bad days.

Hulya: Yes, exactly.

Helen: Well, I’m gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day. 

Hulya: Thank you very much, and thank you for inviting. It's been a great pleasure. Thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.