Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye. 

Today I'm joined by Niki Rubin. She's a singer, songwriter, recording artist, music maker, entertainer, performer, three-time award-winning actress, and a mum, who has beautiful music available throughout the world online. She's an uplifter, channel for the divine, empowerer, positive vibe cultivator, positive inspirer,and puts her love and beautiful magic into all that she does.

Hello, Niki. How are you?

Niki: I'm good. Thank you. So nice to be here.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Niki: When I was a child, you know, it's funny because it's hard to remember, because I think I spent so much after a certain point actually like wanting what others had, right, for a while. 

But when I was younger it was a brown with natural red highlights in it, and natural golden highlights in it, but mostly a brown kind of auburn. And from what I remember, it was very healthy. It was thick, it was shiny. But you know, I started colouring my hair when I was 16. 'cause wasn't happy enough with my own self, you know, so it's hard to remember. 

I only started going natural with my greys, it'll be, what month are we in? December. So, I stopped two Aprils ago right before my birthday, two days before my birthday. So that's what, almost 20 months maybe? 

Helen: Yeah.

Niki: I'm at 20 months now. Yeah. With just no hair dye, letting my naturals come in. And so, I don't really remember what my hair was like honestly. But I could tell you now, it's just so soft, and smooth, and silky, and shiny, and so healthy. 

And I actually like love my natural colours. I don't have as much as I thought. It's funny 'cause when you decide that this is what you wanna do, you're like almost yearning for like a whole head of silver hair or something. Let's say maybe that's a goal. 

For me, that was something that I thought was gonna happen. 'cause when you cover up your grey, you're like, I have so much. I have so much. It's like I have to manage it. You're not even aware of really how much, 'cause every time you see even a tiny bit come through, you're like, I gotta cover it. You actually don't know. 

And so, I have nowhere near as much as I thought, which is very interesting. But I absolutely love what's happening, more and more too as I go with it, you know?

Helen: I've got a few questions then. 

Niki: Okay.

Helen: First of all, can you remember when you found your first white hairs?

Niki: I think I found like one when I was maybe about 13, 14. I would pluck it out at that age. I'm 41, so when I was a child, it was still very much ingrained at that time of, you know, colouring our hair, and my grandmothers coloured their hair and all that. So throughout that time it would be like one here, one there. Throughout the years.

Helen: Presumably you felt a bit uncomfortable with them then when you first started getting them?

Niki: Yes, yes, yes. I did not see the beauty.

Helen: What was the catalyst for deciding to stop dyeing it?

Niki: I actually have quite a few reasons for that, which keeps me going. And you know, because the brainwashing of it all. And I'm an entertainer, and I've been my entire life. So, it was always kind of, I felt like I had to fit certain images per se, or couldn't be, you know, showing like I was older or aging or things like that. 

But I have a 12-year-old daughter. And I love nature. I love the natural aspect of things. Even as a human I haven't done any kind of crazy procedures to myself. I don't do fillers, anything like that. And I really believe in being as natural as possible.

I went through a very abusive situation that. I mean, to be honest, I still have to deal with because I share a child with the person, but it had gotten a lot better. However, all these years of that made me really go on a self-love journey. You know, like completely breaking down everything that I thought I was, to understand why, and how, I got into the situation that I did. So that I would not make those mistakes again. 

And once I started realizing it was a lack of self-love. I didn't love myself as much as I really thought that I did, or was maybe pretending I did to myself. Everything started to change like that. Like what is self-love? What does that really mean? What does that really feel like? How do I really, portray that in myself? How do I really project that into the world? You know? And especially for my daughter. 

And the generation that we have of kids now is definitely a bit different, where there's a lot more emphasis on things like self-love, and loving, and acceptance, and things like that of each other, and our uniqueness, and our differences. It's still not all the way there, but it is definitely a little different. 

So, when my daughter was only a few years old, she used to tell me not to colour my hair anymore. She did not like it ever since she could speak, I don't know if it's partially because she had something like a character like Elsa to kind of see as an influence. You know, or the sister with the white hair, I don't know. 

My daughter's always very much been connected to nature. I don't know if it was just a natural feeling. Maybe she just really loved the colour silver. She used to always tell me silver white hair is so beautiful. It's so magical. You know? And it started to really make me think differently. 

But I wasn't ready for a long time. I wanted to be actually. Because my daughter's my whole world. She's all my reasons. She's my purpose. She's everything for me. And I respect her so much, and I want her to know how much I respect her. So, I really wanted to give her that in a weird way, right?

But it also made me think about it on a level of confidence of what is that saying to her? Of how am I, what am I saying? What is my part in all that in the world for females? You know what I mean? Older and younger. 

And so eventually, you know, I started to kind of put in my head, I wanna do this. I would love to be ready to do this. I wanna do this. I would love to. And finally, 20 months ago I decided to do it. 

I kind of started where I would just like not dye my hairs often, try to let it go, maybe get to like a few months, which is very common, right. Maybe get to like a few months and decide like, uh, oh, like now I'm feeling, 'cause it would be all the mental stuff. Like, oh, but I'm an entertainer and, you know, I don't wanna look old. Those kinds of terrible thought processes and brainwashing. Right. 

But I had the fire to be interested in it. To desire it. And one day, like I said, 20 months ago, I was like, I'm doing it. I'm going to do it. I can always colour it. I can always change my mind, you know? 

But when those familiar brainwashing come in, I have my reasons. My daughter, you know. And I ask her, like, when I go through my stuff, I actually include her in it a little bit. Where I'm like, I'm feeling this way, like, do you think I should just colour my hair? She's like, no, don't do it. It's so beautiful. Don't do it. You know? I'm like, okay. 

And she has actually, she's 12, but she has one strand on each side that's white. And it's so beautiful the way it frames her hair. And so, I encourage her as well, you know. And I want her to feel like that's beautiful. No matter what she chooses to do with herself and her life. I want her to feel that that's something to still shine, and be proud of, because it's natural. And they really are beautiful colours, and they really do accent. 

I was just saying my mom like, I was never able to do really light highlights. My hair does not take it. And I always wanted that. Do you know what I mean? And so, I love that I have these natural highlights that change with the light, with the day, where I put my hair, you know, it's amazing. 

So, I have a lot of reasons. Another one was the health aspect. I used to smoke cigarettes, so I quit. It'll be a little over two years coming up. And, I started by putting that as well, a thought in my head of like, ugh, I hate this. I don't like it. And eventually my body like, was so disgusted by it, it would get ill from it. So, I stopped. Haven't ever gone back since. It makes me sick to my stomach. I like to be healthy.

I studied yoga for years. I taught yoga for years. I still practice yoga. You know, healthy mindset. I make sure I'm eating healthy, my daughter's eating healthy, you know, I'm very much a health person like that. 

And, just knowing that there's so much that we're told causes cancers and things like that. And a lot of it can feel very out of our control to some degree, you know. Because you hear about all these things like, well, it's everywhere. It's in everything. Like all these different things that we hear about, right? 

So where can I have some control over that? You know what I mean? Where are the spots that I can try to prevent that. And hair dye was one of the things, again, just aligned. It was like, well, it makes sense to me, now that I really think about it, what hair dye could do to our systems, to our body. And, now of course, they're actually finding scientific connection to things like cancers with hair dye. 

So that's a big part of it too. It's like I don't wanna purposely be putting something in me that's so unhealthy, that I could be contributing towards these things with, you know.

Another one is the fact that it's this kind of feeling of like, if I don't do it, who will for the future of females? And it's like, even though it's just hair, and it should just be hair, right. It isn't that, it's just not. There's so much negative stigma attached to it, especially for being young, and allowing it to grow out. 

You know, I really feel like I have to do it, because I'm one more person that is showing up in the world confidently. I know how to shine myself. I know how to shine myself proudly and confidently. And that's what people need to feel and experience and see, when it comes to something like this, right? I know how to make myself feel beautiful with something. So, I think people need to see that. And, also of all ages. I'm 41, I need to show that, you know. 

And like you were saying, to me earlier, I haven't had a single negative thing. I haven't had a single negative thing happen to me, since making this choice, and continuing this direction. 

A lot of people actually, I think really wish that they felt that they could feel that they could do this. And you know, again, I think that the only way to help make it acceptable on all levels. And no matter what field of work you're in, no matter what age you are, you know, no matter anything, no matter where you come from, no matter where you live, no matter what you choose, how you choose to show up in the world, I feel like I have to be another number helping that. Do you know what I mean?

Helen: Yeah, I do know what you mean.

Niki: And like you, I mean, I don't want to make it my whole identity. I love that there are people who that's where their main focus is. And again, we need that too. You know what I mean? We need the people who only promote the silver hair, and you know, making it very okay. 

For me, I like to incorporate it into everything that I am. Because I am many things, and I have a lot that I'm trying to put out in the world, that I feel will really benefit the world. Like my music, right. So, I don't want my focus to be on my natural hair. 

However, I, like I said, I will shine it proudly. Every so often I will mention it, you know what I mean? But for the most part, I want it to be as natural as breathing, you know. As accepted as breathing, and as beautiful, and celebrated as breathing should be. So, I like to just not make a big deal of it, make it a part of my life. You know?

Helen: I'm gonna ask you a couple of things about the grow out itself then. So, were you colouring it at home before you chose to stop dyeing?

Niki: Both. Every so often I would go to a salon, but I would also do it at home. I just don't like any of it, to be honest. You know? I mean, especially having to do it myself was annoying, but unfortunately a lot more affordable. And you know, I'm a single mom, and I have to budget and I would find ways to do that, you know? 

But I mean, a salon I think is most people's preference, but you can't do it all the time, you know? For dyeing as far as that's concerned, you know?

Helen: Were you using a permanent colour, or a semi-permanent colour?

Niki: Permanent. Yeah.

Helen: So, you don't have a ton of white hair.

Niki: I do not.

Helen: So, you probably didn't have as strong a line as some people do, in the grow out?

Niki: Yeah, I mean, you could see, even now, it's not that obvious depending on how my hair is, or the light. I mean, sometimes I wish it was more obvious, you know? Then sometimes I'm like, you know what, I guess it's good that it's not, you know what I mean? But I adore it. I honestly like really, and I'm a long-haired kind of person. I prefer my hair long. 

I did cut it, about what was it like? I would say eight months into it. I cut it short. 'cause I had very long hair, much longer it was like down to here. But I had like bleached ends, you know, and it was just, it needed, I was like, not only emotionally, and spiritually, did I need to just do a good cut to let all that stuff that I had been through all these years go. 

But I was ready to kind of start the journey of healthy hair. And so, it's now gotten nice and long again. 'cause I prefer that. But I love what's happening with it as it grows out. I just think it's so cool, you know? And now you're seeing everybody do exactly this, by the way, right.

Like, it's funny because what I have going on, you see people purposely putting even colour, but even grey or white dye colouring in their hair. You know what I mean? 

Helen: Yeah.

Niki: So interesting in these kinds of ways too, in the same kind of pattern, you know? Yeah.

Helen: So, your hair is probably now what, eight or nine inches below your shoulders a bit more than that?

Niki: Not too much longer. Here's my shoulder. So, what, like maybe five inches?

Helen: And

Niki: not too long.

Helen: you probably won't have it cut shorter again to get the grey out quicker, do you think?

Niki: No, I won't. No, I really don't, I don't see, maybe that's something I attach to shorter hair, at least on myself. And like I've always been a very free spirit kind of vibe to me. And very creative, extremely creative, very artistic. And I've always been like that, and very connected with my soul, even if I push things down to try to fit into things or society, right. 

And so, I don't know, for me long hair just kind of goes with my energy. Short hair, never really. It felt, I don't know what to say about it, a little too conservative maybe for me. I don't know. That's just what I would associate it for myself, I guess. The energy, the feeling of it, you know? So, I love it long. I'm gonna actually keep letting it grow. I'm not ready to even do a trim.

Helen: I find it really interesting 'cause obviously some people have a pixie cut to go through the transition quicker. But I think the 

Niki: I wouldn't be able to.

Helen: No, I think the important thing is for people to stick with a hairstyle that they feel comfortable with. cause if they don't, then they're may be less likely to stick with it.

Niki: I do think that's a big part of it. I mean, of course knowing hair grows, but yeah, I wouldn't have been able to go shorter than I did. Which like I said, it was like, ended up being up to here. 

And even for me, like when I came home from the salon, my family was like, what? Because we all lived together my Mom, my Dad, my brother, his wife, my niece, my daughter, and me. And so, they know me too, like this long-haired person all the time, and how I feel about my hair, you know? So that was shocking. 

But I felt like I really had to go. It wasn't so much about the grow out at that point. It was more about energetically letting go of a lot of things that I felt like. I mean, hair holds a lot of energy, so I really felt like I had to get rid of that, and kind of go along this journey with a fresh energy to help my perspective. But that was short. Honestly, that was too short for me.

Helen: So, you've already said you've had some bad days where you've been tempted to colour it again. 

Niki: Yeah.

Helen: Do you know what caused them?

Niki: Oh, definitely. I mean, the thoughts that go through my head are the ones that always made me colour my hair, you know? I mean, I do not strive to, you know, to desire what others have in that way, like I used to. I've worked a lot on that with myself, because I really want to love myself, and appreciate myself, and know all the wonderful things about myself, right? And things that make me unique. 

So, it's not that aspect of it. It's more like, again, like do I look old? Even though that isn't how I actually perceive it with people anymore. I don't see it like that at all anymore. It really is a perspective. And I stopped allowing myself to see it that way. But it's still the old stuff that comes back, that we were so engraved with, you know, ingrained into our brains. And so, it's that aspect. 

Or again, as a entertainer, you know, sometimes I get like the fear, the worry, the creep will creep in. But that's another reason for me of like, no, like, I believe in myself. I'm going to believe in myself. I'm gonna believe in my choices. I'm gonna believe that I'm gonna be even better than fine. I'm gonna believe that if anything, I'll carve my own path, and be successful. 

And I'm going to, you know, I want to be an entertainer that does this. Again, we have to show up in the world, in the places and the spaces that also contributed to making people feel this way about it, right?

Like I love when I see an entertainment somebody that has their natural silvers growing. I love it so much. It makes me feel so good. Especially, I mean, of course older, but because even a lot of people who, are you know, past fifties, sixties, seventies, have this thing that they don't allow themselves to do it still, right. And you know, but then even the younger. 

So, when I see of all the ages, even like people starring in shows, or doing supporting characters, or movies, you know, or other singers in the world. I absolutely support. I go and I support it. I go and I watch it. Even though I don't like the story or whatever, I do it because I want to help that, to cultivate into the world.

And these industries, seeing that it's wanted, it's appreciated, you know, it's beautiful. And again, the more we do it, the more it'll show up. So, when I do have that other, those are like my main things though, I think that make me feel like I have to dye my hair, you know, is just those two aspects. Other than that, I love it. 

And again, I had that coloured hair for so long that was so damaged, like I don't even remember what my original texture of hair. Was because I was 16 

Helen: Yeah.

Niki: when I started colouring my hair. And by the way, I started with blonde when I was 16, so I went right to the damage, you know what I mean? And that's how I lived my life. And so, I mean, we don't even realize when you go that long, especially you have, you don't even realize what your real texture is. I was so young, I didn't even grow into my hair and my stuff necessarily yet, right? 

So, I'm loving, I mean, it's super soft, super smooth, you know, and I don't even have to wash my hair that much. My skin actually got better after I stopped colouring my hair, interestingly enough. Then I started realizing maybe the colouring on the hair shaft was, I was like allergic to it, or it was just affecting my skin. I've had to like do a lot of work on my skin you know? It's very sensitive. So, I don't know. 

I mean, it's just interesting what has changed for the better. You know what I mean?

Helen: Yeah.

Niki: And even like, again, my confidence. You know, it was like almost like the next step that I needed to take for that self-love, and that confidence level. And I've also been on this like big authenticity thing, you know, of really being, especially with like AI and the way things are going in the world, and everybody feeling like they have to like, pump themselves up with fake things, and do plastic surgery, and younger, and younger and younger, and everything's so fake. 

I crave not only authenticity, but I crave being authentic, and I crave showing up authentically. And that's where like even like my photos and my videos on social media I do not edit like that, because I really believe in showing up authentically at this point. 

And so, when I do have those couple thoughts that wanna make me colour my hair, I have, as you can hear, a million reasons why I don't. And I actually look forward, like I really look forward to the future of my hair, 

Helen: Which is cool. A quick question on, as you've been growing it out, have you been experimenting with braids, and hats, and things like that to cover it up at all, or have you just left it loose? 

Niki: I do all of it, because I mean, as you can see from my makeup, like I love to play with my look, and I love to adorn myself, but I also like to be natural. So, I have days where, I mean, one of the things that I actually worked on through the years was to leave my house without makeup on and go out into the public, you know? 

And so, I actually love that now. Like, I love not even getting myself done up. When I'm home most of the time I'm in comfy clothes, and you know, I'm very relaxed and stuff. But I do love to play with my look, I love to play with my hair, and now that I have these cool silver colours, and highlights, and stuff, it's so fun to do hair in a way that I never could before, right?

Because when I would play with my hair, especially with the dyed hair, especially if I was just doing box regular dye or just getting the most affordable thing at the salon, which is one colour, you know. This wouldn't really show in a way.

Helen: Yeah.

Niki: It wouldn't be anything, really. It wouldn't be like the people at all the highlights, right? With the cool designs. So now I absolutely play with that because I can. I do a lot more braids now, 'cause I just love how it looks braided up. And I definitely do my hair with how my pattern is so that I can really show it off in different ways and have fun with it. 

I've always played with my look to a certain degree I should say, you know. 'cause for a while I had a big focus on acting, and doing like lead, and supporting roles. And I always felt like with that I had to same thing, kind of maintain a certain character image. But now, you know, I focus on music mostly and that's kind of got me into a more freedom of expressing myself. 

But even when I was a kid, I used to love to play with my look, and my hair, and my style, and this and that. But it definitely, once your confident becomes bolder in one area or with one thing, it becomes more confident in every way. So, like in how I express myself even more, with the creativity of it all, you know? That's part of the fun. 

I'm not really too much of a hat person. Only when I get like a treatment to my skin that I need to make sure I'm not like getting crazy amounts of sun on. Other than that, I'm not really a hat person too much. 'cause I love to, especially now show my hair. And especially you have like cute styles and stuff, you know.

Helen: Gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Niki: Well, I would say, do it, try it, go for it. 

Remember your reasons, 'cause the reasons are what keep us going. And, again, taking the attachment off of feeling like, okay, once we start, we have to commit. Unless that is a goal of committing to something, that's one thing. But I think giving yourself. There's so much that re requires us to be, do this, do this, do this, that this is one space that we don't need to be that way with. 

And it actually does help, and makes it easier to go through. 'cause you're not giving yourself that type of like. It’s this maybe I will, maybe I won't energy. It's a flow, and I think it helps to go with the flow of the transition.

Another thing that helps me, and to this day that I did since the beginning was, I would take pictures and videos constantly of myself. I would just put the phone up and act like I was in my everyday life existing. So that I could see myself from an outside perspective, and also from a personal perspective, but to get used to seeing myself like that. And then I could work on my mindset about it, and I would just let it play. 

But this might be because I'm an entertainer, and that's how I learn about myself as well, and how I better myself, right? So that's one of the ways that I've always done that, but I definitely suggest people do that. It really makes a difference.

This way you don't just look in the mirror and you're like, whoa. You know what I mean? You're like, oh, I'm used to this. And in fact, not only am I used to this, I am like, wow, I look gorgeous today. You know what I mean? It's like, it definitely makes life easier.

And have fun with it. Like get out of the comfort zone. Be the inner child. It helps me to feel like a whimsical, magical fairy being, you know, that, you know, of course I would have multicoloured hair, first of all. You know what I mean? 

And, it helps to see the beauty of being natural as well. You know, this is something beautiful colours that grow out of our head. There's nothing bad about it. It's actually something to celebrate. 

And another thing that helps think about the fact that we buy luxury items that are these colours that naturally grow out of our head. Silvers and whites of all the shades, you know, luxury items. We wear jewellery like this. We have cars like this. We paint our houses, these colours, you know.

There's so many things that why we should never feel like the thing that grows out of our head is a problem, or a bad thing. If it's something so beautiful, and healthy, and natural. And like you, we should have more of an emphasis on our health, and our wellbeing, and our longevity, and we can still make that beautiful, right? We could still feel beautiful if that is a concern.

We could still make that youthful, or feel youthful if that is a concern. And so much of that aspect and life comes down to our mindset. How we choose to think about something, and how we choose to perceive something. You know what I mean?

I choose to feel like a magical fairy, and that's how I live my life. And so that's how I express, and that's how I see myself, you know?

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Niki: Thank you so much Helen, you’ve been amazing too, thank you so much. Sending so much love.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.