Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Alison Monteith, who worked as a commercial interior designer for 40 years until COVID gave her a great reason to bring that to an end. She's done a little bit of modelling since, but her main focus now is the time spent defying age assumptions in the gym and in her Instagram life.

Hello, Alison. How are you?

Alison: Hello Helen, I'm very well. Thank you.

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Alison: By the time I reached my fifties, I couldn't remember what my natural colour was, 'cause I'd dyed it for so long. But it was straight and dark, dark brown. I had it cut into a very sensible Bob at one point, as I recall. Never really thought about it, to be honest.

Helen: Did you start playing with dyes in your teens?

Alison: Yes, I did. Yes. And with flicks, and you know, flicks were a big thing in the seventies. 

Helen: Oh, Farrah Fawcett.

Alison: I started dyeing it then, and I never stopped, so I had no idea what colour I was.

Helen: So, you probably didn't notice when you started getting your first white hairs then?

Alison: No, I didn't. No, I didn't.

Helen: What sort of colours did you dye it?

Alison: All in the brown, purple, red, orange spectrum. Although I did very, very mistakenly dye it black at one point, which was a nightmare to get rid of. 'Cause anything you put over it just, oh, it was ugly, ugly, ugly. But yes, all sorts, all sorts.

Helen: And was it natural looking colours or were some of them?

Alison: Predominantly not. Although laterally, I thought they were natural looking, and it's in retrospect, looking back at the photographs, they clearly were not. But I thought they were fairly natural looking.

Helen: What was the catalyst for deciding to stop dyeing it?

Alison: I used to dye my hair every week, because my hair grew very quickly, and I couldn't bear the root. And so, I was constantly in discomfort from the dyeing. 

I visited my sister in Canada, and she had much lighter hair than me, but she'd gradually lightened it, and lightened It, till she would gone natural. And she had a head of white hair, and so I would never tell her, but I was really, you know, this is actually really good. I wonder if mine would be like that. And that was what gave me the impetus to try it. 

At that point it's like, so what? Who cares really. I felt I had to announce it to various people that I was going to go through this process. I dunno why now, but you know? And having, such short hair, it was a very short process.

Helen: So, we're gonna come back to the grow out itself. Did you just stop dyeing?

Alison: I went and had colour stripped. And it looked bloody awful, frankly. You know, it probably would've been just as good for me just to grow it out, but I had it stripped back, so that it was not such a stark contrast. But within a couple of weeks, the sides were really short, so they were natural. And I looked like this sort of enraged cockatoo for a while. 

Helen: How did you feel about it as you were growing it out?

Alison: I felt quite positive about it to be honest, because the sides were the natural colour. And it sort of faded through. So, I didn't feel nearly as mortified as I thought I was going to. And it was all over in six months, you know. I dunno what I was worrying about really. 

Helen: And you didn't feel too self-conscious?

Alison: No, I, mean there's some photographs now that I look at and just like, oh really? But no, I didn't feel too bad. Because the people who mattered to me, which are few and far between, to be honest, I had already told I was doing it. 

So, I never had a single bit of double take or anything from anybody. Or any comeback on, it'll make you look old or in a thing, which, you know, a lot of people do get that awful negativity that people get. I didn't have any of that. But I think I'd grown into my scary self by then anyway. So probably no one, would dare to say anything.

Helen: So, a couple of other questions then. How old were you when you did the grow out?

Alison: About 60.

Helen: And who were the people that you told, that you were gonna do it, and what was their reaction?

Alison: My Husband obviously, who is like, whatever, you know, if you wanna shave it off, do what you want. 

And the one that I do remember was my personal trainer, and I don’t know why I felt I had to tell him. The people I met through work, it didn't matter. But he was the person that I was seeing very regularly, and I just didn't want him to be giving me that sort of side eye thing. I just wanted him to understand what was going on so it was done and dusted. I do remember telling him, which was just mad. But anyway.

Helen: So, were you still working at the time that you did the grow out?

Alison: Yes, I was.

Helen: One of the things that people have said to me is that they feel they can't go grey if they're working, because they'll get judged for it, and people will think they're less capable.

Alison: I had a very similar style to what I've got now. It was a little less up, but it was very short sides, and stand up in the middle. So, I think because I had a sort of uncompromising style anyway, the colour was secondary.

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: And I was a designer. So, I think you can brazen things out more easily if you're working in a creative industry.

Helen: Yeah. People have expectations that you'll maybe be a bit more flamboyant.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Helen: Have you found the colours that you wear have changed since you went silver?

Alison: I spent decades of my life wearing black, grey was my spring colour, and some white. So, suddenly one of the very, very first modelling I jobs I did when I was silver, was for a wonderful designer called Megan, who, her stuff is like colour on colour, on colour. So, I've never worn these colours. And it was looking at them thinking, that's all right actually, you know? 

Because historically if I wasn't wearing black, I felt invisible, perversely. I didn't feel like me. But this was a revelation. So, I introduced a lot more colour into my wardrobe. I think any colour goes with silver hair, any colour. So yes, I did, I changed, fundamentally actually.

Helen: And how about your makeup?

Alison: My makeup's changed mostly because my skin's changed. I wear a lot less. I don't bother with foundation anymore, because I can't get it to look like anyone else manages to make it look. 

And I've changed my eyes. I wear an eyeliner now, which I never used to. And I think that's because I had strong hair, somehow a blander of face was easier. I still don't very often go out without makeup on, of some sort, but it's not a lot.

Helen: But based on your Instagram profile, you like a colourful lipstick?

Alison: Oh, give me red lips. 

One thing I've been very lucky, I've got my eyebrows still. I mean I still have them, but they're also still dark. Which I'm so grateful for that I never succumbed to the over plucking. So, I've been very fortunate, I think. And that, and the lips, and the glasses.

Helen: Yeah.

 Alison: You now, it's face done really. 

Helen: Because you've got red rims on your glasses as well.

Alison: Yes, these are readers, I'm afraid I do need readers these days.

Helen: Yeah. That's the nature of ageing. Me too.

Alison: It's maturity, progress. 

Helen: How do you feel about where you're at in the ageing process?

Alison: I feel very defiant, actually. And I started to do more posts. I stopped talking about my age in my posts very deliberately, because I thought it’s bloody irrelevant, you know. Why are people banging on about, oh, I'm 52, and I'm so comfortable with the ageing process. You know, ageing just is surely, and the only alternative is dying. And that I'm trying to ward off as hard as I can. 

But I've started to realize that actually, I think talking about how incredibly ancient I am, might help some people not be afraid of getting older. I'm proud of my age. I'm unconcerned with the vast majority of the changes, apart from the bags under my eyes, which I am mildly obsessed about. But apart from that, I'm 68. What did you expect, you know? And it's not the 68 I expected. I thought you were bent and broken at 68.

Helen: Whereas based on your gym posts, that's really not where you are at.

Alison: No, and I'm extremely bloody minded about making sure that I stay as strong as I can. Because I think we were brought up to expect the opposite. And I'm very keen on defying that. 

And I am also a very competitive person. I'm competing with myself all the time. But also, I confess I do enjoy being able to do what the 20 and 30 somethings are doing as well. You know, there's a satisfaction in that because it confounds them. And that for me is really important, you know? 

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: That they understand they're doing the right thing, by training at that age, to be able to be independent when they're older.

Helen: So, did you always go to the gym?

Alison: I have done since my thirties. Yeah. So, I started swimming. 

Helen: Okay.

Alison: That was how I started, and then I started going to the gym. Yeah, in my thirties.

Helen: Has what you do at the gym changed a lot over the years?

Alison: Yes, I've been working with a trainer for years, different trainers. But the one I work with now, I've been working with him for 10 years, and we work towards a goal. And I love a challenge, so he sets me ridiculous challenges that make me fall over and giggle and, you know, but I find that really rewarding. It's not just the by rote stuff that you quite often do if you go to a big gym. 

And I started going to the gym. I thought I'd love classes, you know. You know, step, I'm completely uncoordinated. I couldn't do step, and then I suddenly realized I enjoyed lifting weights. it's just such a shame that school puts you off exercise. Such a great shame.

Helen: Yeah, I think a lot of it's your teens. You're so self-conscious in your teens, that the thought of being red and sweaty in front of the boys is just, no.

Alison: Yeah. Mortifying. Absolutely mortifying. Yeah.

Helen: I'm gonna say I was actually a cross country runner in my teens. 

Alison: I learned very early that if you duck behind the hedge and caught the bus, you could be back at the same time as the runners, you know?

Helen: Whereas I love to run, so. 

Alison: Yeah. I wish I did. 

Helen: Kind of like a meditation for me. What are your current gym goals?

Alison: Well, just before Christmas I achieved the goal of, like, the end of last year was to do a clean and press at 16-kilogram kettlebell. So, I'd been working on my cleans for weeks, and weeks, and weeks, and I nailed it just before Christmas. So, we're back on that. I've gotta build up again, 'cause I had two weeks off. And I'll be posting doing a snatch the other day, first time. So, new challenges.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah.

Alison: It is just a stay strong. And I do enjoy having visible muscles. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: I enjoy that. God sounds so shallow, but I do enjoy that. I've gone from running two businesses, and being a director of different companies, to I'm gonna do a kettlebell clean by Christmas.

Helen: I started going to the gym nearly two years ago, it’ll be two years in April. 

Alison: Right? 

Helen: Because I'd read so much about the importance of maintaining muscle mass and bone density. 

Alison: Yeah.

Helen: And I was already doing running and yoga, but I wasn't doing any strength.

Alison: Yes.

Helen: And it is a very different form of exercise, whether you. 

Alison: Do you enjoy it?

Helen: Yeah, I do. I go to a small group PT, with no mirrors, which is my ideal. 'cause when I've been to the gym before, and there are mirrors, it's like, no, I really don't wanna see myself thank you. But yeah, my legs are very strong, and my core's very strong, but my arms have never been strong.

Alison: They'll catch up. They will. Takes a bit of time. But I really, really believe there's an exercise for everybody.

Helen: Yeah, I'm like, when we do all the leg stuff, it's fine. I'm kind of, my ambition is to deadlift my body weight. 

Alison: Brilliant.

Helen: I'm quite close to that. And then to run a 25-minute Parkrun as well, so.

Alison: Oh, okay. I wish I could run. It hurts my back. I'm just not built for it, unfortunately. And it's free, you know.

Helen: Yeah.

Alison:  But no, it's good. And I think people who exercise there’s a different mentality somehow. There's such a buzz that we can all share. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: Even if we do different things.

Helen: So how do people react to you in the gym then when you are doing hard things?

Alison: Disbelief usually. Or a little, they don't do it at the time, but when you are, you know, you're getting your coat on to leave a class in the morning and there will be a, you're so strong. 

No one ever asks me how old I am. Because it's quite clear when I've no makeup on and my hair's down and you know, the, I'm old enough to be their grandmother. But yes, there's the occasional comment of, well, you are so strong and you know. ‘cause I don't think I am, until someone says it. 

Helen: I get that too. But mainly 'cause of any of the sort of legs and core stuff, and they're like, how do you do that?

Alison: Yeah, yeah. But we don't see ourselves relative to, we don't understand what we can do, because we've seen our slow, slow, slow progress, and haven't really acknowledged it, I think. This is why I like seeing videos of me training because I can see what I'm doing wrong, and then later on I can look back and see. It was only 12 kilograms that I was doing then, you know,

Helen: Yeah.

 Alison: just to understand that you've made progress.

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: ' cause we don't see it, do we?

Helen: See it in the figures, I guess in terms of what weights you're lifting.

Alison: Right. 'cause I work with a trainer, I never really know what I'm lifting. 

Helen: Okay.

Alison: He just sets the weights up, and you know, off I go.

Helen: Whereas I would set the bar up myself, and then decide like my next round how much more I want to put on it. 

Alison: Right, okay.

Helen: Or if I want to put more on it. 

Alison: Yeah. No. He'll, say that's too light.

Helen: I do have some coaches who do that. And you're like, well, some days I quite like that. Other days, yes.

Alison: Yes. It depends on the day.

Helen: Yeah, I think that's the other thing as well. You have to be kind to yourself, so some days you're gonna feel like pushing your PB, and other days you just don't. 

Alison: And some days you just can't.

Helen: And that's fine.

Alison: Yeah, of course it is. But no, it's a buzz. I love it

Helen: How long do you want to keep going to the gym for then?

Alison: Forever. I have already told him he can't retire until I pop my clogs.

Helen: How often do you go?

Alison: I train with DC twice a week.

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Alison: I'll be in four o'clock this afternoon. And then the other three days I go to the 6:00 AM, is bootcamp at the moment 'cause it's post-Christmas. I did five days a week last year. I've really got to stop killing myself. So that's what I do. And then Saturday and Sunday I take off. I rest, and I'll walk. But that's all I'll do.

Helen: So, I go twice a week to the gym, run twice a week, do yoga once a week, and then walk apart from that. But,

Alison: Yeah.

Helen: Recovery is so important.

Alison: Yes, it is. And you need longer than you think. I know that I'm extremely stiff when I get outta bed in the morning. My back is giving me grief. So, I know if I go too far, I'll damage myself. 

Helen: Yeah, yeah.

Alison: It's just keeping a lid on the ego.

Helen: Yeah. The ambition is for like, well, yeah. 

Alison: If she can do it, she's 22. I can do it too.

Helen: I do have kind of the opposite of that quite a lot in the gym. 'cause people are like, if she can do it, then I should be able to do it as well. 

Alison: Yes.

Helen: And you're like, well on you go then.

Alison: Just watch me.

Helen: But it is like, well I've been doing running since I was 18. 

Alison: Yeah.

Helen: It's like my legs are gonna be strong.

Alison: Yeah. They are. Yeah, they are. And isn't it, the strength of your quads, that's an indication of how long you're gonna live, so.

Helen: Supposed to be. 

Alison: There you go.

Helen: It's supposed to be my Mum took a tap dancing in her sixties, so. I'm not doing that.

Alison: Brilliant. Never too late.

Helen: Don't think my feet would take it. What sort of reaction do you get from people to your hair?

Alison: When it's up, this is a terrible confession, if someone doesn't compliment it, it's not been a good day. Because invariably someone will comment on it. And my husband and I even have a joke now that if someone says hair's great, he'll turn to me and say, we can go home now. 

If it's down, no one comments on it at all. But it's because it's you know, it's styled, isn't it? And it’s

Helen: Yeah,

Alison: that it gets comments. It's not the colour, it's the fact that it's thick with product.

Helen: I think it's probably a little bit of the colour as well. 

Alison: Yeah. I'm very, very happy with the colour. I've been very lucky.

Helen: It is quite white, do you use any special products to keep it in good condition?

Alison: I don't, no, I don't.

Helen: See I'm with you there. I've never used a purple shampoo.

Alison: I look at it and think I don't need it. What's the point? I'm careful with heated styling, you know.

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: I don't use strong heat because that burns your hair. And I have got darker bits that show if it's down. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alison: But that's the wonderful bit, isn't it? It's the unique patterns that we've all got. No two. 

Helen: Yeah, someone described it to me as like a fingerprint

Alison: Yes, no two heads are the same. It's glorious really. 

Helen: And a lot easier to look after than dyeing it very regularly.

Alison: oh, every Sunday I used to do mine. God, all those hours, all that pain, and chemicals, and Ugh. Yeah.

Helen: And the cleaning afterwards. I'm guessing.

Alison: Yes. Yeah.

Helen: I'm gonna ask you one last question. 

Alison: Okay.

Helen: If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Alison: What advice do I have? Apart from saying do it. I'd suggest that they grow out, I dunno, quarter of an inch to see how much white they've got. Because I think some people are disappointed with the colour of their hair sometimes because they wish it was white and it turns out it isn't. It's salt and pepper, and I think you have to make that decision for yourself. 

I'd encourage them to do it, but they will know when they're ready. And if you are really on the fence, you are not ready. So many people start, and then panic halfway through. 

I really would urge people to get onto Instagram and meet, you know, electronically, meet other silver women, and just see the beauty, and the strength in these women. It will give them the courage to power through it, I think, when they realize how many have done it, and so beautiful. Yeah, just do it. Good grief. It's only hair, isn't it?

Helen: You can always colour it again if you don't like it.

Alison: Exactly. You can always colour it again. Yeah. Yeah. 

Helen: I think one of the things I would say is, so my hair is nothing like the colour I expected it to be because my hair is very white at the front, and that was the root that I was used to seeing. So, my hair is nothing like as white as I expected, 

Alison: Yeah. 

Helen: But I love it anyway. 

Alison: Yes. And I think we learn to, don't we? And if someone doesn't like it, they're wrong.

Helen: If someone else doesn't like it, they're kind of projecting their own feelings and it's like, yeah, you can go away. Um,

Alison: Politely, yes.

Helen: Because I like it, and it's my hair, so.

Alison: That’s all that matters. It's all that matters. And, you know, we've really got to stop being offended by how other people look. Isn't it a dreadful situation to be in? Really?

Helen: Yeah. Yeah, it's their choice, and we should respect that whether they decide to dye their hair or not.

Alison: Exactly. And keep your thoughts in there.

Helen: Brilliant. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for chatting to me. 

Alison: Pleasure. Pleasure, Helen

Helen: It's been lovely talking to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Alison: And you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.