Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Mel Barfield, an award-winning creative copywriter, event speaker, Freelance Magazine columnist, and host of the Indie Business Club Podcast for Freelancers and Founders. 

Hello, Mel. How are you?

Mel: I am very well, thank you. How are you doing today?

Helen: Not bad. I've been out networking, which always saps my energy, 'cause I'm an introvert. But otherwise, good. So, when I finish talking to you, I'm going for a run, that'll make me chilled.

Mel: Oh, I, thought you were gonna say, go and lie down in a dark room, or watch some terrible television. I'm impressed that after all that, you're gonna go out for a run. Well done.

Helen: Gonna go outside in nature, and decompress. So, I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were child?

Mel: Oh, I believe I had quite blonde hair when I was very young. I say I believe, I'm just trying to picture a picture, in my head. I spent a lot of time outside and back in those days in the Eighties, no sunscreen. So, I was often quite grubby looking from a mixture of dirt, and tan. And I had quite blonde hair. It went dark. 

And my youngest daughter, she had the same thing, where she had quite blonde hair early on, and then she's gone, darker brown. So, I had I think the term mousey brown sounds a bit derogatory, but it is that colour hair.

But when I then went into kind of teenage years, I experimented quite a bit with hair dye. Went mahogany. I think mahogany red was pretty popular colour of the time at the turn of the Century. The turn of the Millennium. Yeah, well I haven't thought about what my hair was like as a child. Great question. Takes me right back.

Helen: Was it long or short?

Mel: Oh, I had it right down to my bum at one point. So, it was very long. Again, my youngest has got this, bum length hair. And I remember having it cut. I was probably about 11 or 12, 'cause I remember my Mum quizzing me. Are you definitely sure? Are you sure you want this cut?

And she put it into a plait, and cut it. And I think she might still have the plait of hair somewhere, which is a bit gross. We did the same to my Husband after he had a COVID long hair man bun type situation. We plaited all his hair, and then cut it off. And I've still got those plaited bits of hair. So, I can't judge my Mum for keeping my hair from when I was 10 or whatever.

Helen: So, in your teens obviously said mahogany. Was that like a semi-permanent colour?

Mel: Yeah, it came in a mousse can. And it said six weeks, but actually it stuck around quite a bit longer. It might have been Schwartzkopf or something. But yeah, it was definitely a mahogany red. And I played around with that sort of hair dye, that semi-permanent, quite a bit when I was a teen. 

Though I'm ageing into grey now, I sometimes get tempted to do the semi-permanent thing just to see. 'cause I've now got quite silvery white hair, it'll show it so much better now. 

I think it’s arite of passage, isn't it? To have a veryb experience with trying to bleach your hair as a teenager. Because my hair is stubborn like me, and the colour wouldn't lift from it. So, I ended up having to kind of bleach it over, and over again. And as you probably know where this is going.

If you bleach your hair repeatedly, it turns into this horrible texture, almost like wet cotton wool that's all kind of squeaky, and damaged, and awful. And the colour just wouldn't lift. So, I ended up with this really strange mix of quite orange bits, bright white bits. 

And then of course, I wanted to dye it back to brown. That didn't work very well. It kind of ended up a khaki sludge colour. So, that period of my already at a quite a vulnerable age for, you know, feeling quite self-conscious about your appearance as a teenager. That was a self-inflicted but unpleasant, additional layer to my self-esteem issues.

Helen: Do you think that's coloured your attitude to dyeing after that?

Mel: Coloured my attitude. I see what you did there. Not really because after that I had my hair quite short, so obviously I can't quite remember the timeline of events here, I think it was quite short already. So, it didn't take a huge amount of time for the horrible damage to grow out. It definitely put me off bleaching, certainly put me off bleaching, but it didn't put me off dyeing a similar or darker colour to what I was already at. 

At one point I had, I loved this hair actually, did it at home myself, I had layered hair a bit like the Rachel from Friends, you know, long layers, and the longest layers

I dyed a dark brown. And then the top layer was still a bit of mahogany brown. So, I had a bit of red in it. And so, I had this kind of like double layered thing going on. I loved that hair actually. 

There's a great picture someone took of me kinda spinning around so that you could see the two different colour layers. I’d forgotten all about that Helen. This is like diving into my memory pit of my brain. So yeah, it didn't completely put me off.

I don't think I'd even trust going to a proper hairdresser and lighter going with my hair colour. Every now and then if I think, oh, maybe I'll have like, I can't remember what it's called, something age. Bal, Bal

Helen: Balayage. 

Mel: Balayage. Thank you. That sort of look I can imagine that working quite well for me. But I've got the greys coming through at the top, so that's with blonde at the bottom, isn't it? So yeah, I just don't think I'll ever risk it. I don't think it would match my skin tone either. It certainly, yeah, made me cautious around the idea of bleaching. I'm happy brunette, slash grey.

Helen: Two tone hair kind of reminds me of, when I was getting my hair coloured. One time I went to the hairdressers, came home, and my daughter would've been 11 or 12. And while I'd been out, my husband dyed the bottom half of her hair, like the underneath layer purple. And she had like mousy coloured hair, and I'm like, oh my God, she's not allowed that for school.

But yeah, the pair of them had been scheming obviously. 

Mel: When Mum’s gone out. Oh, lovely. Lovely.

I used to put highlights in my younger sister's hair. Just badly sometimes. I dunno if it was some kind of, a bit like Sun-In, you know, the stuff that you spray, and then the sun bleaches your hair a little bit. 

Helen: Yeah.

Mel: I don't think it was that. I think it was something a bit more hardcore, but I can't remember exactly what the dye was that we used. But yeah, she loved it having little blonde streaks in her hair. I think my brother might have had frosted tips at some point as well. I was very happy to experiment on other people's hair after my bleach disaster.

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first white hairs?

Mel: Yes, I was 20. And it's the same age my Mum first found grey hair. And she turned greyer quicker than I did. So, I've been having grey hairs for, what, 21 years now. And you can't see from a glance that I've actually got them. They're quite well scattered around my head. 

Yeah, my Mum had a really pronounced clump at the front of her fringe, the kind that some people do on purpose, you know, go have it dyed. I've got some streaky bits, but I haven't ever had a really solid pronounced clump of grey hair.

Helen: So did your Mum just leave it?

Mel: Yes. And I think that's influenced, her approach to beauty for want of a better term, it just feels odd saying beauty, because she's never been interested in wearing make-up. She's never been interested dyeing her hair. Though she has I think like once or twice. She actually had a really bad allergic reaction to hair dye once. Shouldn't laugh. 

Her attitude towards beauty standards has definitely influenced me, I think. Because I used to be a bit annoyed when I was in my early teens, and I wanted to know how to put foundation on. I was a bit like, Mum, can't you show me how to? And she's like, well, I don't know. I don't use it, so I dunno what I'm doing. 

So, I never learned how to do it myself, because I didn't have my Mum to show me how. And I think that saved me years of, you know, that like tide mark that 

Helen: Yeah.

Mel: teenage girls often have. Where they kind of forget to do anything than their jawbone. End up with its like white neck, and a really orange face. And orange foundation all over the shirt collars, and stuff like that. So yeah, I think that's been a big influence on me. 

Another reason I haven't dyed my hair since, I was in my twenties. And when I did dye, it wasn't to cover greys, it was always just because I quite fancied having reddish hair or whatever. Since then, I'm too lazy. I can't be bothered with the maintenance.

Although there are other factors of like, I don't I should have to bother dyeing my hair. I don't feel like it's something that as a Society, everyone should expect women to do. It annoys me that it's expected. But also, I'm just immensely lazy when it comes to any level of maintenance.

 I don't get my nails done. I don't get my eyebrows done. I don't wear make-up most days. I do like to wear a bit every now and then, if I'm going to an event or something. But yeah, the overriding reason is I am lazy. I'm sorry if I'm letting down the sisterhood a little bit by saying that. 

I also don't wanna spend loads of money. I don't wanna spend loads of money on getting my hair dyed. Why should I have to? Why should I have to spend a hundred pounds every six weeks, or, you know, however regularly, I don't even know how regularly people get their hair dyed. That's how amateur I am at this.

Helen: I think it depends on how bad their roots are. But certainly, four to six weeks is not uncommon.

Mel: So much money. And I wouldn't want the faff, and the towel dyeing issue of doing it at home really. 

When I was younger and I did it, I saw it as something fun. It was a bit of a way of showing a bit of personality, and I don't feel like I need that now. I don’t feel like I'd need to experiment.

I quite like the idea of going for a different colour that would semi-permanent, but would pick out the silver hairs. I think that might be quite fun to do. But then I'd worry I know so many people that regret ever starting dyeing their hair. I just feel like maybe now don't wanna mess with it. Just rather leave it as is so that it doesn't, get ruined. 

The highlights that I've got coming in are quite streaky, and I think it looks quite nice, and I wouldn't wanna risk, I know you can always grow it back out. But I was listening to the episode you did with Bhavini, talking about having to wear a hat while the greys growing out. I don't wanna have to do that. I kind of, I’d rather just not ever start dyeing it, I think.

Helen: And are you not particularly self-conscious about the silvers?

Mel: No, but I also know that it's probably because they're not super prominent at the moment, and probably helps me not. Because it's not just that the colour's different, I don't think that's something that bothers me so much. It's the texture as well. Because they come in so coarse.

And again, I don't, want to betray the sisterhood by saying things like this, but it really is disproportionatly ageing, because of how many people dye their hair. It's completely skewed our idea of when people should have grey hair. So, it's completely natural and normal for me in my forties to have grey hair, and be going greyer, and greyer, and greyer. 

But still associate grey hair as being something that you get when you are in your seventies, eighties, nineties. This the old lady thing. And so, part of me hates sucked into that way of thinking. But I also, equally, I don't want to feel self-conscious about it. And I don't at the moment, because ageing is a privilege. And we are so lucky to get older, because so many people don't get the chance to. 

I'm not religious at all, but a friend who is, he says, there's this Bible quote of, grey hair is a crown of splendour. And it should be something that is celebrated as a symbol that, you know, we are old, and we are wise, or not even necessarily old.

You can tell that I'm having this like battle in my head about it. I'm really trying to see it as a privilege, and something to be proud of, and something that shouldn't be hidden away. 

I also find it that I get sucked into this kind of like, oh, I don't wanna look old before my time. It's not before my time. It's absolutely the right time to be going grey. It's just Society that's made everyone think that you shouldn't be grey until you’re significantly older. 

I'm so conflicted about it because part of me is like, everyone should just be able to do what they want with their bodies. If they wanna dye their hair, if they wanna have this, if they wanna get Botox, blah, blah, blah, it's up to them. 

But as a collective in Society, it's the same way I feel. Sounds a bit controversial, but about the weight loss drugs, weight loss jabs Ozempic and stuff like that. There’s pressure, as soon as something becomes the norm, there's this expectation that you should do it. And it's like, well, what's the big deal? Why don't you just do this thing? 

And Botox has been in that category for a long time now, that it's no biggie. Like so many people I know have Botox, and it's just a thing that they do, and they just see it as an extension of, you know, getting their nails done, or something like that. 

As I say, I'm torn between feeling like, oh, is everyone's right to do what they want. And, you know, bodily autonomy and all that kind of thing. But there's also this collective failing that we kind of have, that sounds a bit too strong. But when I look at my daughters who are seven and nearly 12, I don't want them to think that's what they need to do. They need to conform to ageing standards and beauty standards. It’s horrible. 

I mean, luckily, my eldest is only interested in lip balm at the moment. But I can imagine that, you know, in the next couple of years, she'll start talking about eye cream. And feeling like she needs to have some kind of, beauty regime or, you know, face masks and stuff, and serums. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a serum. But I view it more in terms of like a pampering. It's about how my skin feels to me, rather than how it looks. 

But yeah, it's sad that we've got this disproportionate idea, it's so disproportionately ageing, because of that, on mass women are dyeing their hair, to hide the fact they've got greys.  And therefore, the outliers, the ones that don't dye their hair, suddenly look like they're really old.

Helen: And they're not. I find it very concerning that we are so focused on aesthetics. And most people are much more dialled in on that, than thinking about, well, how am I gonna age healthily? How am I gonna look after myself so that I've got functional fitness when I'm older, and can live a happy and active life?

So, are you doing anything to age healthily?

Mel: What a timely question because I am, but only as of about six months ago, I gave myself a mental kick up the bum, because I was just in such terrible habits. I was actually recording an episode of my Podcast earlier, and talked to the guest about how I would just not feel hungry. 

Then two or three o'clock rolls round, I need to go and do the school run. And I would just scoff, you know, three, four bits of toast with Primula, or some other cheese-based substance on. Because I just got to the point where I was like, I’m suddenly starving. I need food.

And I just thought, that food is not nourishing my cells on a cellular level. This is not giving me vitamins that I need. This is not giving me the energy that I need steadily throughout the day. So, I started in August kind of time, I started making myself have breakfast. 

So, I have like granola always with blueberries, and raspberries, and whatever other fruit I can find. And some kefir for the gut health, and a few hazelnuts. That's like my go-to breakfast in the mornings. Just a little breakfast that I kind of sit, know you shouldn't eat at your desk, but I bring it upstairs when I start working, and then I just kind of make sure that I'm munching on that. So that's eliminated the kind of the two o'clock toast frenzy that I used to have, because I kind of neglected my body up to then. 

And I also at the same time started, just consciously eating lot more veg, and lean proteins. And trying to cut down a bit on carbs, to just make sure that I was having as much natural food, you know, unprocessed food as possible. I still eat an absolute crap load of bad food. Don't get me wrong. 

I'm not on a health kick as such, but it's just more than like mindfulness about it. And going, oh, hang on, am I just opening the fridge out of habit, or do I actually? And trying to like tune into my body a bit more. And I also start going to the gym at that point with much more, of a kind of routine, regular routine. I was already going sporadically.

This kind of betrays my susceptibility to advertising, and the pressure. 'cause I have started taking a lot more supplements as well, becaus, they're more like things like, never say it right, glucosamine, for my joints. 

So, I keep getting served bloody collagen adverts, everywhere. Everyone wants me to have collagen. Because I am at that perimenopausal age, and my hair is, let's go back to the subject of hair, my hair is thinning on top. And I found that more distressful actually than the colour of it. I don't care as much about it turning silvery. But just being able to see my shiny scalp, so like the top of my head. And I think that part of that is, probably that I'm perimenopausal. 

So yeah, I've started taking more supplements, making sure I'm getting iron. Omega-3, 'cause I'm pescatarian, so I don't eat red meat. So, I've got an iron supplement in there. In my general health, I feel a lot better. 

My next thing I want to consistently bring in is more weightbearing exercise. Again for the menopausal reasons to improve my bone density. Actually got a scales that have, scales are evil and I don't like them, but I got some that have other measurements. So, it shows me my bone density. 'cause I've been a bit worried about my bone density, and I think it shows it to you in pounds. Like it measures that you've got x number of pounds, of bone in your body.

Helen: Yeah.

Mel: So, I've got that so that I can try and see whether there, you know, any improvements, or,I dunno how accurate they are though really. But yeah, since turning 40, I've given a lot more thought to how I can be healthy, and stable, with quite good flexibility and mobility when I'm older.

'cause I've, kind of realized I'm gonna be 50 in eight years. How many times am I gonna get to go skiing in that time? How will my body hold up if I want to go skiing? In my mind I'm framing it way more in terms of what can I enable my body to do. Rather than how can I shrink myself to be smaller, or, you know, to reach some mythical perfect weight, or, you know, size that I think I should be.

Helen: So, do you think part of the reason that you are not dyeing your hair is to set an example to your daughters?

Mel: I'd like to say, that's why. It's definitely part of it. It really is because I'm lazy though. Cannot stress enough how much this is to do with me being absolutely lazy in terms of, I don't wanna have another to-do list item. 

I've tried really hard to talk about body stuff with them in a really positive way. So, when I talk about their freckles, or little moles they've got, I call 'em their pretty patterns. And like frame it as a positive thing. And when they fall over, and graze their knee, oh, it's okay, 'cause your magic body will heal it. And talk about their bodies as being this amazing, awesome thing that's really cool, and interesting, and different. 

They call my belly mamma tumma, because it's all kind of crinkled and crepe papery from having stretch marks. So, all these little ways of kind of like. Not ever going as my Mum, for all her good points of, you know, encouraging me not to be bothered about make-up, and stuff. She would say things like, oh, you've got my nose, sorry. And those kinds of things. 

So, I'm really careful now like to go, if everyone goes, oh, you look like your Mum. I'm like, you so lucky. Without it sounding like I'm being sarcastic. And they have so much confidence. 

So when they talk about my grey hair, they call it my unicorn glitter hair. I try and, you know, encourage 'em to call it that as well. Because it's that like unicorn thing of like you've got silver in your hair and it's like trying to look at it as being something quite cool. 

I'm very, very conscious and wary of, I never talk down about myself in front of them. I actually never talk down about myself to anyone, even myself. I have quite good, healthy levels of self-love. And to the point where I decided recently, that anytime I catch myself in a mirror or reflective surface, I make myself, I'm gonna do it now, 'cause I can see my laptop. I'm gonna make myself, give myself a really big smile, and kind of almost like, hi. 

Because I think it's so easy to get sucked into this whole thing of like hating yourself. Hating how you look, hating how you don't match up to Instagram filter. Yeah. Perfect, plastic humans.

Helen: Plus AI. Yes.

Mel: Plus, AI making it even worse. I think the thing that they've done for me, having girls in particular, it's made me behave so much differently towards myself. Because I want them to see me being confident, happy in my body, proud to be who I am, not feel like I need to go layering, though, you know each to their own, if you like wearing makeup, good for you, but I don't want them to feel like that it's something that has to be done before you can possibly like, show your face outside. 

I think they force me to be more comfortable in my own skin, and my own body, and with my own appearance. Because it would break my heart if I ever said something derogatory about myself, and then realized that I was describing a feature they've got as well because we look similar. Oh, tt'd be awful, awful, awful, awful. 

So, I'm even careful, like I've got quite cramped teeth in my mouth, and my daughter's got the exact same, structure of teeth. And she'll need braces for that.  From a dental hygiene reason as much as anything. And even then, I'm not like, my Mum would go, oh, that's your Dad's fault. Sorry. 

It's just trying to be as neutral. If I can't be positive about something, then I'll at the very least try and be neutral about talking about things. So, we don't make comments about people's appearance when they're on TV. We don't make judgements. I like have to tell family members, don't say that in front of the girls, please If they make any kind of unpleasant comments about someone's weight, or whatever.

Children hold a mirror back up to you, don't they? That you see all of your flaws, and all of the good bits through your children's eyes. So, they've certainly made me try and love myself a lot more. And I do. And I wish that on everyone. When people go like, oh, she loves herself, like, good. We should all want that for each other. 

So, yes, they haven't made me embrace my grey hair. They've made me embrace, oh, it sounds very cheesy. They've made me embrace everything about myself. And yeah, certainly made me very conscious of how easy it is to slip into negative self-talk. And I'm pretty good, I think at not doing that now.

Helen: One last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey. Any hints or tips for them?

Mel: I suppose it would depend where they are in it, 'cause I'm in a situation where I haven't dyed my hair, so I haven't had to have that U-turn. The hand break turn of going, oh, hang on, I've gone down this path of dyeing it, now I don't want to anymore. 

If they were coming at the same kind of point, I am of just deciding not to start dyeing their hair, I would certainly encourage them to hold off as long as they possibly can. Because think when you first see a couple of grey hairs it feels scary. Because it is literal sign of your body slowly starting the long decay to the point that you die. That's what ageing is. 

And while it is an immense privilege to do that, I can still understand why people kind of go, oh my gosh, I'm getting old 'cause I've got a grey hair. And I think you just need to kind of hold out for a little bit, and just see how as you get a little bit older, a little bit wiser, you see how you feel about it. And not feel like it's the end of the world, you know, it's not, something that needs to define how you feel about yourself. 

But then equally, you know, if somebody wants to try covering it up, I'd probably steer them towards the semi-permanent route, so that they can see whether they can be bothered, or if they're as lazy as I'm can't be bothered with the upkeep. I think everyone deserves to just be respected for what they choose to do.

So, while I would hope that, people listening to this would decide, actually, I'm just gonna leave my hair, I'm gonna see how it looks grey. Others, you know, are well within their rights to hide all signs of their ageing.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest.

Mel: Thank you for having me, and thank you for making me think about my childhood hair that I haven't thought about for 30 years.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.