Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Angie Newson. She's been in the health and fitness industry for over 35 years, and has taught all disciplines of fitness. For the past 20 years or so, she's focused on Pilates and yoga. She's written for the National Press, Women's Magazines, and appeared on TV, and is the author of two wellness books.

She has two children, three grandchildren, and a silver hair dog who is 16. Hello, Angie. How are you?

Angie: Good afternoon, Helen. I’m well, and thank you very much for inviting me to have a chat with you today.

Helen: No worries. I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Angie: It was brunette, I would say it was mousy, and it was always short. I had two brothers, and I think my Mum wanted, not necessarily an easy life, but we all had short hair. She had short hair. My brothers and I had short hair. My dad had no hair. 

Whenever I wanted to grow it, I didn't even have a choice of growing it, so it was always short, until I became a teenager when I had much more say in my hair.

Helen: And did you want it longer?

Angie: Yes. I think I was always a girly girl, and I always wanted long hair, so much so that as I grew up going through teenage years, I wanted hair down towards my bottom. It never actually ever got there. It got down to sort of bra line. And yeah, I've always wanted long hair and I'm, still want long hair to this day.

Helen: Nothing wrong with that. Did you experiment with colouring your hair when you're on your teens?

Angie: In my teens, yes. Back in those days, I was at college in 1977, so I was in college, 77, 78, and it was a secretarial college, shorthand and typing. And I actually wanted to do that because I wanted to become a journalist. But it was also combined with liberal art. 

So, every Wednesday we were either taken out somewhere rather lovely like Ascot or Wimbledon, or if there wasn't an outing, we used to have people come in and talk to us. So, like little lectures. 

And then one Wednesday we had this famous hairdresser in, and I think it was Nikki Clark, but don't quote me on that. And he brought in a model, and he showed us to make hair a little bit more interesting, just to dye a few little strands either side, and a few little strands, or highlight them, at the back. So, that when you wore your hair up, it was a little bit more interesting than just a block colour. 

So, all of us experimented with that. So that was the first time I actually ever, I suppose went to a hairdresser for highlights. But it was more for the appearance, more for cosmetic.

Then I experimented with Henna, which was very smelly. And I wanted to stay as natural as I could, so I thought, okay, Henna was the thing that was in at the time. I didn't do much after the Henna to be fair.

Until I actually found my first grey hair when I was about 23, and I worked in an advertising agency. Which was the best time to work in ad agencies then, in sort of the early Eighties. And I found a grey hair first thing in the morning, I went to the Ladies, and I must have been doing my hair. Found a grey hair, and I thought, oh my God. I was actually quite shocked. 

And that afternoon I was in the pub with some fellow colleagues, and that's what you did in advertising back in the Eighties, just go off to the pub. And I then declared to everyone that I was the wise one, because I now had grey, albeit only one. So, we were all, yeah, quite shocked that I found grey hair, but I was 23.

Helen: How did you feel about it?

Angie: Shocked actually. I just thought I was so young to find a grey hair.

Helen: Which I find is really interesting. So obviously you are the 99th person I've spoken to. And so many people found grey hairs in their teens, and early twenties. 

Angie: Yeah.

Helen: But as a Society, 'cause we're so conditioned to dye our hair that people think that's really early. It's like, well, no, some people do go that early. Some people don't go to their fifties. There's a massive spread. But it's interesting that we're so conditioned to think, no, I'm too young.

Angie: Yes, I know it is conditioning, isn't it? And then, what had happened after that? I must have forgotten about it because I never had any more grey hairs coming through. 

And then maybe early thirties, I think I was around about 34. By that time, I was in the fitness industry, so I'd left advertising. I had my two children. And got into fitness in quite a big way. But it was around about the Jane Fonda era, and it was aerobics, and I absolutely loved it, loved the way it made me feel. 

So, I then went down the teaching route. And I do remember teaching a class, and I was about maybe 34, 35, and grey hairs were coming through then. And I had a hairdresser that was in my class, and I chatted to her, and she was trying to convince me to colour my hair. Not for her to do it. She wasn't looking for clients or anything.

And I said, well, no, I'm not sure about the chemicals, I've only ever done Henna. And the few little highlights I had when I was a teenager. I think looking back, I must have had quite a lot of grey hair coming through, because I obviously then started getting strands of grey coming through. 

So, then I actually started dyeing, and went to the hairdresser, and that started my route of maybe going to various hairdressers. I never got loyal to any particular hairdresser. And it wasn't that often I had to go, so it wasn't as if, the grey hair was really coming through very fast. 

And then eventually, I started on those box dyes. I think because I kept going to the hairdresser quite a lot by then. It was always hit and miss whenever I went to a hairdresser. And as I said, I didn't get loyal to any particular hair hairdresser at all. And then I found the box dyes, and stayed on them for a while. 

Then another friend of mine whose close friend of hers is a hairdresser, and I went to her and I explained my situation that the grey was coming through, and I said, I don't want to keep coming back every few weeks to get it dyed. She said, let me meet you at the hairdressing wholesalers.

So, we went there, and she told me what to buy, and how to do it. We had a session where she showed me what to do. And I continued with that for a while. I couldn't do the back, so I would either get one of the kids to do the back, so they must have been living at home at that time. I can't really remember.

But even when my daughter got married, and her children of her own, I was still going to her, so that she could do the back, because I couldn't reach the back properly. So, it was many years.

Helen: And what colour were you dyeing it?

Angie: Brunette, but it was getting darker and darker for some reason.

Helen: So, you started your sort of natural colour, and then gradually went a bit darker?

Angie: Yes, but I don't think I did that on purpose. It was just going darker. 

At one point, I was actually light. And I tried something different by putting some pink colouring on the ends. So, I may have been late thirties or early forties when I sort of went pink at the ends. Which looking back now, I don't even know how I managed to go out like that. 

Helen: what was the trigger for deciding to stop dyeing?

Angie: I just got so fed up, so fed up. And I was doing it every two weeks. I wasn't dyeing the whole head of hair each time. I was just literally doing all the roots. And as I said to you, my daughter was doing the back if I couldn't reach there, and I used to say to her. Is it bad at the back? She goes, well, no, no, you're not that grey at the back Mum.  But I think obviously I was.

But I think I was so fed up. I thought to myself, I can't do it anymore. I just can't do this anymore. It wasn't even in Lockdown. In Lockdown, I still managed to find my dye. 'cause I know like, a lot of people went grey in Lockdown. That didn't even occur to me, to go grey, during that time.

Because I was still teaching on Zoom. I still had to look what I thought was to look decent, and polished, even on Zoom. So, I wouldn't have gone grey in Lockdown. It wasn't a thing that I wanted to do. 

And then I think it got to a point where I saw a post on Instagram. This was after Lockdown. I must have been flicking through, and I saw this wonderful lady. And I don’t know who it is, because I can't even credit her. 

And it was quite a striking Instagram post because she looked completely brunette, then she lifted up her hair, and she was totally white underneath all at the sides, all at the back underneath the crown of her head. So, all she was dyeing was the top. 

And I thought, I'm gonna try that. And I did. So, I stopped dyeing at the sides first. I continued to dye at the back for some reason. I just stopped at the sides first. And what I used to do was still pin back the sides. So, the ladies that I was teaching, or my friends, could see that I was actually going grey at the sides. No one commented on anything at all.

And then I thought, I'm gonna stop dyeing at the back. And in Pilates, when you're standing at front of class, there's an exercise called a roll down and a roll up. So, if I was rolling down, my hair was hanging down, and I thought, oh my goodness, they're obviously gonna see I'm very grey underneath.

And as I rolled back up, I said, oh, I'm just gonna stop the class, and just tell you I'm experimenting with transitioning to going grey. And they must have thought, Hmm, I dunno quite know what she's gonna talk about here. But it was literally a two-minute conversation, and I told the ladies what I was doing, and then I continued with the class. 

And it was interesting because at the end of class, I had quite a few people come up to me, quite a few people didn't, 'cause I don't think they actually wanted to know about, or even talk about going grey. But quite a few ladies came up to me and said, oh, that's very brave, what you’re doing.

And I said, well, I'm experimenting and you know, and I said, I've told you because we're all ladies together and you know, so it was more like a chat really about what I was doing. So they were, some of the ladies were quite intrigued, doing it that way.

Helen: And when did you stop dyeing the top bit?

Angie: When it was becoming every 10 days, Helen, to dye the roots. Because I was dyeing the roots, my parting, I was dyeing the crown. And I thought, I'm gonna stop now. 

I felt like a badger. The roots started to come through, but because I wear my hair up quite a lot, particularly when I am teaching, that line, that demarcation line. Yes, it was there, but it wasn't that visible, because I had my hair up most of the time. So, you could see the grey coming from the side. You could see the grey underneath, and then I had like a top knot on top of the clip. I think it's the line that is the most difficult parts.

Helen: I think that's the thing that most people feel self-conscious about, particularly in the beginning. 'cause we're so conditioned that roots are a bad thing, and you should cover them immediately. 

Angie: Yeah.

Helen: That when you've got those first couple of inches of root,

Angie: Yeah.

Helen: you just feel a bit scruffy.

Angie: Yes. Yes. And that's what it was. It was that I actually felt, not necessarily unkept, but maybe you feel that you're gonna be judged as, oh, you're not doing your hair, you're letting yourself go, really you’re grey, and you are old.

It was a decision that took a very long time, I would say about 11 to 12 years. So, when I was in my early fifties maybe, went with a friend to Selfridges, to the Wig Department. They had a very good Wig Department. I don't even know if it's still there. And I said, come with me because I wanna try on the grey wigs.

So, we went down to Selfridges, and I tried on the grey wigs. And she took some pictures, and at that time I just thought, no way, this is so not for me. So even though I really wanted to go grey then in my early fifties, doing that experiment with her, cemented that it wasn't the right time. It just didn't suit me, at all, that's what I felt. So I continued dyeing. 

There was another chap that I followed on Instagram actually. And I'm sure a lot of your listeners will have heard of him, called Jack Martin, Jack Martin Colourist. And I contacted him. So, he's based in the States, I think he's in Orange County in California. And my son lives in the States, so it wouldn't have been a problem for me to go over there.

And I first started following him when he had about 300 followers. I think he's got a million now. I'm not sure. By the time I did contact him, he did have a long wait list, because I think by then he had done maybe Jane Fonda's hair. He did a few celebrities. But he was doing these amazing transformations, and his wait list was about nine months. And I think it's gonna be about at the time, $3,000.

But I w contemplating going down that route where you arrive to him with maybe three or four inches, and then he does this amazing transformation. You're in the chair for eight or nine hours. 

But I backed out of that because a, the wait list was nine months, and it was expensive. I was more concerned about upkeep. ‘cause you see the amazing transformations, then what happens? You know, you've gotta fly back to him or, anyway, so I didn't go down that route. But he does some amazing transformations.

Maybe I had an inch, or an inch and a half of my roots, I was on a yoga retreat. So then again, it didn't really matter. So, whenever I'm on a retreat, I never bother about anything. No make-up, no nail varnish, no hair drying, or anything. I was away for about a month. While I was on the yoga retreat, I met a lovely lady, her hair was auburn.

And I said, oh, who's your colourist? And she said it was this chap down in London. And I was telling her my experiment. And I said, do you think he would lighten the crown? So that it's not so dark and my demarcation line wouldn't be so prominent like a badger. 

So, when I got back to London, I contacted him, but he's very busy, so I had to wait a couple of months. So went to see him. And this was in the early summer, 2025. So only last year. Went to see him, and he lightened it to a light brown, dark blonde. But I'd never really been dark blonde before, so it was a bit of a shock because it was much lighter than I thought it was going to be. 

But then coming into summer again, it didn't really matter 'cause I had it tied up. So, I had to get used to that it was actually light blonde, but it was only the crown 'cause everything else was white. And he also coloured, the ends, the bits that were white, had still bits of brunette at the end, and he coloured that as well. So, he did that.

Then, a client of mine, her sister is a hairdresser, and she mentioned me to her sister, and I went to see her sister and this was maybe four or five months later. She put on a toner, so it's sort of blended in a little bit better. 

Then I went off to the States, and my daughter-in-law goes to this fabulous hairdresser in Vegas where they live. This hairdresser is called Angel, and he was an angel really because he then lightened me up another stage. By this time, I had maybe four to five inches of proper grey on the crown, and then he lightened me up one more level 

And he said to me then, do not do anything else, because you can't go any lighter on your old brunette, 'cause we don't wanna damage the hair. He said, just let it be as it is now. And I did. 

And the more it was growing out, the more amazed, and surprised that I was, that it was silver. It was a silver colour, as opposed to white. Which I actually thought it was going to be because of the demarcation line. And it's got bits of my natural dark salt and pepper at the sides and at the back. So, I'm really pleased. 

It's got a little bit of old dye left. A few months, I had about six inches cut off, and I've just maybe got, as I said, a few inches left.

Helen: How long is your hair?

Angie: It comes down to the shoulders. I'm still trying to grow it down to my bottom, Helen. Still hanging in there, imagining I've got long hair like Rapunzel.

What I've noticed is since stopping all the dye, my hair is a lot thicker, it's a lot softer. It's not frizzy. It's smooth. And it grows so fast. It obviously did grow fast before because of the roots coming through. But because it was so dyed over all those years, it used to just break off, so it wouldn't go past my shoulders. It just wouldn't. 

And I used to say, to friends, oh, my hair doesn't grow. Oh, my hair's really slow at growing. But it obviously wasn't, because the roots coming through. But it was just that it was in bad condition. It was in bad condition, not because I didn't look after it, because I did everything I could with masks and wraps, regular trims, et cetera, to keep it as healthy as I could. It was so much dye, so many chemicals, that was breaking the hair, and making it thin.

And what I've noticed now is that when I comb my hair, or brush my hair, not very much comes out at all. Whereas before loads of hair was coming out. And I didn't know if that was a menopause. I didn't know what it was. But I think thinking back now, it was more that was breaking off.

Helen: How did your friends and family react when you told them that you were going to go grey?

Angie: Some of my friends said, oh, that's brave, and it looks very good. And another friend said, that's interesting what you're doing with your hair. 

My mother said, no, what the hell are you doing? You look very old. So, she wasn't amused at all. And she still dyes her hair to this very day. She's 90, coming up for 90. Although she did say the other day, oh, your hair's not looking too bad. 

I think a couple of friends said that I've been inspirational to them in going grey. Not that they've gone grey, yet, but hopefully I've inspired them to take a step. But everyone's different, aren't they, Helen?

Helen: They are. What shampoo and conditioners are you using to look after your hair, if any?

Angie: I do use occasionally a purple shampoo. When I had it lightened the last time, so I've only ever had had it lightened twice. But, the hairdresser, Angel did say to me, use a purple shampoo once a week. And that will take the dye up, the blondness, it will stop it from going brassy, or orange.

So, I use the purple shampoo occasionally now. And I use the White Hot Hair Products. And I love they do a silk wrap. So, I love that. I've also got purple conditioner, and I sometimes mix that with just an organic conditioner as well, just to keep my hair soft. 

I've not found, I know some people say that purple shampoos and purple conditioners can make your hair quite brittle, I've not found that. But I'm not using them every wash. So, I like the White Hot Hair Products.

Helen: Cool. I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what hints and tips would you have for them?

Angie: I would say is it the right time? Because if it's the right time, and I'm only talking obviously from my perspective, for me it was the right time. It wasn't when I went to Selfridges to try the wigs. But when it's the right time, you become more determined, more curious about what is really your natural colour. And it was easy. 

So, although it may be frustrating and you may feel that you've got bad hair days, when it's the right time, it's easy. But just be patient. And maybe if you've got a trusted hairdresser, then chat to them. I know now lots of hairdressers are doing that grey blending, aren't they?

Helen: Yeah.

Angie: A few years ago, there was someone that I worked with, that had gone grey, and she recommended her hairdresser, which was down in Southend. I didn't get there because I then found the chap in London, and I then found Angel, so I didn't get to her. But there are hairdressers now, aren't there that do the grey blending, and that will support you on your journey.

Helen: Yeah, I do I think it's becoming a more popular option than it was. It probably started sort of lockdown-ish.

Angie: Yes.

Helen: People were experimenting with it. I've heard kind of probably recently more people who've done that than gone for the pixie, straight off and just

Angie: Yes,

Helen: one and done.

Angie: Yeah, I've got a friend, actually. She looks fabulous. She did have the pixie cut, and she looks great. Actually, I've got two friends that did go the pixie route. 

But the majority of my friends are still dyeing, and they're, you know, in their sixties, fifties, and sixties, and they're still dyeing. And you know, that's up to them. I think it's such a personal preference, personal choice.

Helen: Yeah, yeah, I think you just have to do what you feel comfortable with.

Angie: Absolutely. 

And I think it's also changed my attitude towards ageing as well. When I used to write for a lot of newspapers, and the health club that I was managing at the time, I also did their club magazine, and I did lots of articles on anti-ageing. Back in the day, whereas now I've changed the whole thing around, and it's more about pro-ageing.

I think also as we get older, I felt there's, you know, been a couple of tragedies, and you lose people that pass away that you love, or you know, you've had friends that are not here anymore. And I'm much more grateful now to get to my sixties and hopefully, you know, my seventies, and eighties, and beyond. So, I’m pro-ageing now. 

I think we're so governed by advertising, the media, the social media, about being young, being youthful, that's what you've got to be. You know, all the aesthetics, and the treatments that are out there now. And I'm not saying don't do any of those, again, it's a personal choice. But embrace that we're still here, embrace that we've still got hair, for example. I mean, just embrace that, we're getting older.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Angie: Thank you, Helen, and thank you very much for having me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.