Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Alex Hughes. She's a highly experienced Ethical Growth Strategist with over 40 years-experience across operations, sales, finance, and business development. Auxilian Business Consulting Ltd., supports small and medium enterprises to improve processes, demonstrate impact, and build credibility through sustainable strategy, CSR, and accreditation readiness.

Hello, Alex. How are you?

Alex: Hi there. Hello. Lovely to see you. Thank you very much for having me on your podcast.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first white hair?

Alex: I would think I was in my forties, mid to late forties, which sounds quite late in some respects. But I have got a very thick head of hair, from my Mum who had a very thick head of hair, and she didn't go grey till she was late. But yes, probably about late forties, I would say is when I first noticed it, particularly on the sides.

Helen: What colour was your hair before?

Alex: Very, very dark brown. And when I was born, I had such a thick head of hair that my brother used to take the mickey out of me and call me a loo brush. I had an awful lot of hair and it was dark. And I've got very thick, thick hair, if that makes sense. 

Helen: Yes.

Alex: So, I'm very lucky in that respect. And also, whenever I have my hair cut, it seems to go in whatever direction it's cut. Some people have their haircut, and it doesn't quite go that way. 

Helen: So, when you found the first white hairs, how did you feel about it?

Alex: I kind of dismissed it slightly, thinking oh, it's only a few, it won’t matter, nothing's gonna happen. Gradually, there are a few more and more, and when I went to the hairdressers, my hairdresser would say, oh, I found one around the back, but you just can't see it. Because obviously you can't see it. 

So, I thought, oh, okay, there's grey creeping in here, more than I had realized. And I didn't think about it initially. But as it got more, and more I thought, hmm, might need to do something about this. And I wasn't really sure what to do. 

I had dyed my hair a couple of times, but what I found was I could only dye it with one particular hair dye. Because I was allergic to whatever was in most of the other ones. So, I was quite restricted in the hair dye that I could use. 

So, what happened then, was talking about the transition, is my hairdresser at the time said, there's only one transition journey you can take with this, and what you need to do because you can only use one particular hair dye. It was L'Oreal Casting that was the name of it. He said, what you need to do is every two or three hair dyes, you go down a lighter shade. 

And then over about 12 to 15 months, he said your hair will transition. And all people will have seen over that time is just slightly lighter hair colour. And that is exactly what happened. So, I was very blessed with not having streaks, or anything like that. He helped me manage it. 

So, that's how I kind of transitioned from having some sort of streaks here, to bits at the back which I didn't realize, to actually going through the whole journey. And it took about, yeah, about 12 to 15 months total.

Helen: And did your hair go white quickly after that? 'cause your hair's quite white now, isn't it?

Alex: It is quite white. Towards the end of that process, it did. Initially I couldn't see that. And actually, I think it's got whiter over time since it's fully gone. That's possibly 'cause the things I put on it. 

But also, it's the white that's at the front of my head spread round to the back. 'cause my hairdresser would always say, oh, it's a bit darker at the back. You're a bit pepper and salt around the back. You're more white at the front. Seems to have spread over time.

Helen: How old were you when you made the transition?

Alex: In my fifties. I'm just 60, last year. I set up my business in 2017, and I had very dark hair with lots of peppery bits here. And then over the last 10 years, or nine years, it's basically gone from that colour to now this colour of white, which I'm very lucky to have. 'cause not everybody knows what colour exactly they will go. 

Some people are more yellowy, some people are more sort of dark grey. I suppose I had some sort of idea what colour my hair would be like because my Mum had this kind of hair. But that's not always the way it will go. For example, my sister's hair is not the same colour as mine. Hers is more yellow, and she's more darker grey, rather than white. So, you never know how it's gonna go. 

And I feel very blessed because my Mother-in-Law, bless her, has got very thin hair, and very grey, and it's quite receding. So, I've got masses of hair, a bit like Barbie. At the hairdressers there's loads on the floor, and I've still got a thick head of hair. 

That's kind of the transition I took, and it kind of worked. People knew my hair was getting lighter, but there was never any, oh, you know, you need to do something about your hair kind of scenario. It was always, everybody quite liked it as it got lighter.

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Alex: and I actually had quite a few compliments saying, oh, actually you looked quite harsh with dark hair, and now I can see you with light hair, you look more warm and inviting. I think I was harsh when I had darker hair, but that's the difference that they see, I think.

Helen: Yeah, I think it is because your skin fades as well.

Alex: Yeah.

Helen: So, the contrast between your hair and your skin becomes much more significant as your hair gets whiter and whiter, if you try and cover it.

Alex: And of course, the other thing you need to do, and I did this was have my colours done. So, the colours of clothing that I wore when I had dark hair, are totally different to the colours I wear now. So I wear a lot more greens, and blues, whereas I was wearing more brighter colours before.

So, it is interesting your skin changes, as you just mentioned, that affects the colour of the clothes you wear, and also the makeup colours you wear. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: So, you have to be aware of that sort of thing as your hair changes as well, about the clothing that you wear, the colours that brighten up your face.

Helen: So, with clothing, is it just the colours that have changed, or have you changed the styles that you're wearing as well?

Alex: A bit of both. I wear kind of things that aren't quite so close to my neck, if you like. So, it allows my hair to be the focus now. I've also changed the colour of my glasses, the shape of my glasses. Whether that's relevant or not to white hair, I don't know, but it seems to have made a difference to me as well. 

So yeah, lots of different things that have kind of, made my look a little bit different to how I was before.

Helen: So, are you a summer now?

Alex: I am a Spring, I think they call it. 

Helen: Okay.

Alex: Yeah. So, yeah, had that done. So, it's actually quite nice. I've got a whole list of colours in a little concertina book that I can take round to the shops and go, ooh, is that my colour?

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: So, lots of, purples and lilacs, and, that sort of colour as well. Blues, and definitely greens is a colour for me.

Helen: You said you've changed makeup as well. How has that changed?

Alex: Different colour eyeshadows, and also different types of eyeshadows. I used to wear more creamy eyeshadows. I've got more kind of, powdery ones now. And different colour lipsticks, and things like that. So, brighter colours, I think. I was able to wear darker ones before with the darker hair. But now I've got brighter lipsticks, not reds, but you know, slightly more vibrant colours than I had before.

Helen: So like corals maybe, and orange? That kind of 

Alex: Yeah. Or, kind of like not a pink, but a pinky red but not red. If that makes sense. 

Helen: Yeah. 

Alex: So, lots to think about. And also, earrings and jewellery, and making more of this part of your body to just show it all off. Yeah. I probably would've done that anyway before, but I'm more aware of what I'm wearing, and doing now.

Helen: Yeah, so you're not fading into the background. You are very conscious of your appearance, and your grey hair is a part of it.

Alex: I'm not quite Pru Leith standing out quite like that, although I think she looks amazing. But yeah, definitely thinking about different styles, and different colours, and trying out new colours and styles. 

But I think that's possibly 'cause, you know, got more time to choose that. Whereas at work, I would just kind of rushing around putting the next thing on, whereas I'm thinking about styles and colours more now.

Helen: You said you went grey about 10 years ago, which was before the Lockdown peak, when there were far fewer people with grey hair. What sort of reaction did you get from other people when you did it?

Alex: I've had a lot of comments from various people. One of the things that people say is, oh, you are brave. I wouldn't do that. Or, that looks fabulous on you, but it wouldn't look good on me, so I wouldn't do that. One friend of mine, which I thought was highly hilarious, she's an actress. She said, oh, if I did that, I'd never get a job. 

And I said, hang on a minute. And then I started to reel off all the silver haired young and older, male and female, actors and actresses who all have beautiful white hair. And then she went a bit quiet. But, yeah, I thought to myself, wow, that's really interesting that you say that you wouldn't get a job 'cause you have white hair.

Helen: I have had people say that around the corporate space. And how they don't wanna be perceived as old if they're working in a corporate environment. So it's hard for them. I don’t know how true it is, but I think it's one, of the many fears that people have embedded in their heads around going grey.

Alex: Yeah, I think when I've been networking with my small business, I think people assume I'm a certain age because my hair's white. So, I think there's a lot of assumptions made without realizing. 

But it was interesting doing it, half of me was thinking, oh, I don’t know if I should do this, shall I carry on, shall I not? And I kept going, kept going. And now I just think it's part of me now. You know, it's who I am. And I'm not hiding that. It's who I am now, and I'm gonna continue on with this hair. 

I feel very lucky. It's very thick. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: It goes in the style I want it to go in. And when my hairdresser cuts it, every single time she said, oh, I just love cutting your hair. I think purely because it goes in the direction, but also, she just loves the colour, and the texture. 

And I have, on a couple of occasions been asked in the hairdressers, oh, what colour have you dyed that? And I said, I haven't, it's my own colour. This is my natural colour. And then they stand there and look and say, wow, you are lucky to have that colour. But as you say, we've had this conversation earlier, but you don't know what colour you're gonna go. 

But you do have to look after it. I do think it needs nurturing, and I do think, you know, it's lost its colour. So, do use purple shampoo. It's called Silver Shampoo, but it's purple. So I just put it through, just to lift any yellow.

I don't really have any yellow in my hair, but I think sometimes in the summertime the yellow can creep in on the edges a little bit. So, I use it on the edges, and put it through with some conditioner. I know there's a lot more new ones coming on the scene. I saw one recently by a company in Cornwall. They're using seaweed.

Helen: The Cornish Seaweed Company, I think. 

Alex: Lots more are coming out now. I was a bit kind of like, oh, do I need to put purple shampoo in? And my husband would say, you haven't cleared it up properly. 'cause it's some in the shower still on the wall. But I found that I do need to nurture it a little bit. And I also put a bit of serum in it just before I blow dry it, just to give it a bit of texture, and moisture, and what have you. 

But I'm lucky that it is a fairly good condition. And it hasn't gone too dry or anything, but I do look after it. And have it cut regularly as well. I can tell my hair needs cutting because it just gets a bit limp. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: So, I know in my six weeks is about to hit.

Helen: Your hair is quite short. 

Alex: Yes.

Helen: Was it short before you went grey?

Alex: No, when I was younger, I had hair probably down to my backside. At school I had it in ponytails, et cetera. And then I got very sporty, and ended up doing an awful lot of swimming, and my Mum was getting a little bit irritated by the fact that I had to dry it so much and what have you. 

Anyway, she suggested that perhaps I cut. So, I went halfway, and then I quite liked it. So, then I went to sort of shoulder length, and then shorter. And it's kind of stayed like that, and it suits my face. I have tried to grow it, not whilst I was grey, but later on in life. But I just felt I was too round. It just didn't suit me. And I like the sort of spikiness of it. 

And also, I was working in, environments in the City, where I didn't have to time to blow dry, and do all that. I just needed to quickly put some gum in it, blow dry it, and go. Didn't have the time to sort of spend an awful lot of time on it. So, it stayed short probably for about, I would say from my early twenties.

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: A good 30 odd years.

Helen: Which will have made you grow out a bit quicker, I have to say.

Alex: I prefer it short. Although both my daughters have very long hair, and they both said to me, we’d never cut our hair Mum. And I wouldn't encourage them to because it's what they like.

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: They would never want to have short hair. It's not, they don't like my hair. They just like long hair. And I think there's more things you do with long hair these days. You've got all different sort of clips, and what have you, that we didn't have.

I just like hairbands, and that was it really. Or Alice bands. But they've got lots of different clips they can do it up with, and what the rest of it in different bun shapes, and what have you. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: So yeah. It's interesting that they wouldn't cut their hair.

Helen: Mine's much longer now than it was before I went grey. But mainly for condition, 'cause I used to have it bleach blonde, and it used to get very, very dry, and split on the ends. 

And also, it didn't really suit me, 'cause my complexion is a cool skin complexion, so I sort of suit like blues, and pinks, and that sort of thing. 

Alex: Yeah.

Helen: And yellow hair didn't really suit me. But you don't think when you bleach it that it is yellow until you see pictures afterwards, and go, yeah, that's not blonde, that's yellow. That's like a pale lemony colour.

Alex: I always look at people like with hair colour like that and think, oh no, that doesn't suit the skin kind of connections. So, it makes people look quite pasty, I think sometimes.

Helen: Yeah, if my hair went beyond my shoulders, I used to look very drawn when I had it bleached. Whereas now, it', quite a lot longer than that. 

Okay. Couple of questions. First of all, more people went grey in Lockdown. Have you had different reactions now that there are more people with grey hair, than you did when you first went grey?

Alex: Possibly, but not for a specific reason. I think a lot of my friends, well some of my friends are a bit younger than me, but a lot of my friends are suddenly going through that transition. And wondering how I've done it. 

So, I think during Lockdown, people didn't realize about it, and their hair grew anyway. But I think a lot of people are seeing my hair, and saying, tell me how you did that. How did you progress from being kind of a little bit grey to where you are now? Curious about what I did, and how I did it, and how I feel about it, and all that sort of thing. 

So, I think as people are transitioning into grey, they're more interested in about how they did it. 'cause some people have got kind of like what I call the badger look, or some people have got the, you know, bits and bobs here, there and everywhere. Or some people can't see it at the back. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: So, they ask me more about it than they used to.

Helen: And have more of them transitioned?

Alex: Some have, some haven't. Some were about to do it. And in fact, a friend of mine, who I went on holiday with at the weekend, I hadn't seen her for a while, and we were standing under a light, and the colour it was beautiful, kind of coppery red colour, but that's not really her colour. Her colour is darker than that. 

And she had just had it died. And I said, oh, I love the colour. She said, oh yeah, I’ve just had to have it dyed. Wasn't quite as brave as you. I think people are still too scared. They're not confident enough to do it. 

But I think it really does depend on the style of your hair, the colour of your hair, and all that sort of thing. I don't think people are brave enough yet. I think they're still worried about, as you say, what people will think. It depends how old they are as well. Some people go grey earlier.

Helen: I think for a lot of people, especially if you have been dyeing your hair to cover the grey, it is so ingrained in you that roots are a bad thing. And that as soon as your roots show you start to get stressed by them, and you feel like you should cover them immediately. It is a big thing psychologically to let go of that, and decide that now's the time, and I am going to grow it out.

Alex: Yeah. And I don’t know whether there's a male input into all of this as well, as in what my husband will think, do you know what I mean? So, my Husband was great. He was like your hair's fantastic. That's what's happened to you. Go for it. So, he was never, oh no, you must keep it dyed. But I think there are some people who aren't quite sure about their wives doing that.

Helen: I think there's maybe some. I think with both that, and with friends, I think a lot of it is what you expect, and what's in your head before you start. Rather than what actually is gonna happen, and what people actually think. 

Because everyone is very focused on their own appearance. And if you actually think, how much time do I spend looking at other people and thinking, oh, she's doing such and such, it's actually not a great deal of time. But we always think that other people will be looking at us, and judging.

Alex: Yeah, I think you're right that it starts there with what your own thoughts are, but I think as you progress, it's like what is everybody else looking at? What is everyone else saying? My girls were like, oh Mum, it's great. Go for it. Everyone was very positive for me. I didn't have any negative, comments apart from when other people, I think it's down on them when they say, oh, you are brave.

'cause what they actually mean is, I'm not brave enough. Not You are brave. I mean, I think it is on them, and they're saying it like that. But I always had positivity from, you know, my close family, especially my Husband. He was up for it. 'cause he said, actually, your hair's in such a great shape and everything. He wasn't bothered that my colour went from dark to grey. And lots of people more prefer it now. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: As I said earlier, think it's softer on me, so it does depend on the person. But yeah, there's a lot of mind shifts going on in it, because you think of a silver or white haired people, and they're old. So, there's that that comes straight away that, oh, do you think people think I'm really old but then I thought, well, I am old.

Helen: Yeah. I think the other thing is we are so ingrained with the dyeing culture, that it's not unusual for people to have white hairs in their teens and twenties. It's actually quite normal, and probably of the guests that I've spoken to, I would say a quarter to half had grey hair before. or some grey hairs in their twenties. But we equate it with old. 

Alex: Yes, we do.

Helen: Because that's the age at which you stop dyeing, rather than naturally that's what hair looks like.

Alex: Yeah, I mean, it depends, isn't it? You know, my Husband's lost his hair, so I mean, I think for men it's about are they gonna lose their hair. I've got another friend who's got hair exactly like me, took a photograph of each other the other day as the Silver Fox and the Silver Queen. 

You know, everybody's hair is very different, and I don't know what's worse, losing your hair, or going grey, because losing hair for a woman is quite

Helen: Yeah.

Alex: sort scenario. My sister-in-law lives in America, and her hairline is way back here, because she's got very thin hair like my Mother-in-Law. So, you know, that's quite difficult for a woman to get around as well.

Helen: Yeah, I wouldn't like that. I'm like you, I've got a lot of hair and my hairdresser describes it as easy-going hair. 

Alex: Yeah.

Helen: So how ever he tries to blow dry, it just does.

Alex: Yeah. Absolutely. Same with mine. I'm very lucky on that front. And it is just hilarious how much hair's on the floor, and you know, I look like this, and yet there's still all this hair on the floor.

Helen: Are you doing anything to age healthily? 

Alex: Yes, I am making sure about my nutrition, because obviously if I've lost the colour in my hair, I want to make sure that my hair stays healthy. So, you know, exercise, swimming, looking at my nutrition. I'm looking at sugar in my diet as well. 

And making sure that I'm eating more of the rainbow, if you like, or as I've recently done the 30 plants. So, trying to eat 30 different fruit and vegetables within one week. Which sounds a bit of a task, but actually once you've done soups, and various other things, it's easy to do. 

So, drinking lots of water, hydrating the skin, looking after my nails, fitness levels, food. Yeah, just enjoying life, and getting out, and just, you know, just enjoying every day.

Helen: Cool. I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice and tips would you have for them?

Alex: I would say that they need to make sure it's something that they want to do. And if they were going to do it, to talk to their hairdresser about the type of hair they have, and what is best for them as their transition method. Because some people do it in various different ways, but I would definitely talk to your hairdresser about it. They're the people who've been cutting your hair. They know you. 

I would also say look at your wardrobe. Maybe have your colours done. Because things are very different once you do go grey. But be proud of it, and go with it. It's about you. We are all individuals. And if that is happening to you, then just go with the process, and be confident that, you know, it's all gonna work. 'cause I think nine times out of 10 it does. 

It is about confidence. You know, we can't change that our hair's changing, we can't change our age. We’ve got to embrace it, and go with it, and join everybody else who is grey, and just be happy with it. And be proud and, you know, all that sort of thing. So, I wouldn't push it away, but that's me. Other people might push that away. I've embraced it.

Helen: I think a lot of people I've spoken to have talked about it being kind of a broader journey of self-acceptance generally, rather than it's just your hair changes colour. Because

Alex: Oh, absolutely.

Helen: in order to do it, you have to question some of the standards that Society's throwing at you.

Alex: Absolutely you do. But I think that is all about being confident in your own self. And sort of going with what's happening, and being proud to be that colour. I think there's a lot of soul searching that has to be done. And yes, everybody ums and ahs about it initially. Shall I? Shan't I? 

But I think at some point you have to make a decision. You either keep dyeing your hair, and spending loads of money. Or you find a transition journey, and you go with it, and you feel proud to be that colour. It's you. And I'm proud to be me, and I'm lucky I've got the hair I've got.

So, you know, I would support anybody on that journey. But yes, there's discussions you have to have, and what have you with yourself, but I think it's about being confident, and going forth with it.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest.

Alex: Thank you very much Helen, It’s been lovely to talk to you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.