Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Alexis Eizinas. She's a creative mind and business leader out of Canada, innovating the beauty space for Silver Sisters. She's the founder of Silvering, a beauty brand offering cosmetics and unique hair care, designed to amp-up the beauty of grey hair.

And the co-founder of a soon to be released mobile grey hair grow out, support and tracking App called the Silvering Sage. Hello Alexis. How are you?

Alexis: I'm so good, so good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Helen: I'm gonna start by getting a little bit of background, and asking what your hair was like when you were a child?

Alexis: It was dark brown, often messy, cut unusually short. I have to say, it was pretty basic. I think since silvering, suddenly I have remarkable hair. 

Helen: So why was it short?

Alexis: it started when I was a kid, like in the 1970s. My Mom took me to an economical barber, who, you know, cut my hair a little bit shorter on one side, and then the other, and then the other, and then I had a boy's haircut. And it just kind of stuck honestly, and suited my face. Easy to manage. It was a bit of a tomboy, so, yeah, kept it.

Helen: Did it stay that way through your teens?

Alexis: It sure did, through my teens, and then into my twenties. Short hair was the look that I had, actually never mind into my thirties. Yeah.

Helen: And did you colour it at all?

Alexis: Of course, I think there was something about, you know, kind of the teenage years when, hair colour is fun, right? You can change your look really quickly. You're trying on all kinds of different personalities anyway, and it's fun, you know, I think most women have been, you know, blondes or redheads or brunettes or like black hair.

And then something happens, you know, like in your thirties, colouring your hair becomes less about fun, and more about chasing your roots.

Helen: In my teens, I had this ambition to have a blue stripe one side, and a purple stripe the other. But my mother would, 

Alexis: And did you do it?

Helen: No, my mother would never let me,

Alexis: Oh, dude, you know what? You could do it now. The thing is like silver hair takes colour so beautifully, because it's like a doll waiting to be dressed up. It's so fun.

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first white hair?

Alexis: I have to be honest, I can't. You know, my Mom in the Eighties had, you know, short, big white hair. And she had silvered early, and so I think when I started seeing silver hair, it wasn't a big deal to me. 

Because I was like, oh, I saw my Mom. I'm like, that's what I'm gonna look like. And it's kind of fabulous. Yeah. Minus all the shoulder pads, and teasing.

Helen: So, you were colouring your hair anyway. When did you decide to stop?

Alexis: That was when I was pregnant with my child. It was 2008. I was, you know, in my mid-thirties, and even in your mid-thirties, it was considered a geriatric pregnancy. I'm like, really? 

So, I was very, very concerned about everything from like chemicals, and, you know, I was making sure I was walking, and for sure the hair colour was like absolutely not. Yeah.

Helen: So, you did it for health reasons?

Alexis: I think so. I think so. But at that point, I didn't have a whole lot of silver hair anyway. And the ones that I had I wasn't really trying to hide. Yeah. But I definitely stopped kind of any kind of henna, or additional fun colouring. Yeah.

Helen: Have you coloured it since then?

Alexis: No. No, because once I saw the silvers coming in, and kind of that migratory pattern that it takes on your head as it, you know, sections of your head get lighter and lighter. It was a process that I really enjoyed, and I'm still enjoying.

Helen: When did you start having noticeable amounts of silver then? 'cause you're saying 2008, you didn't have a ton.

Alexis: Didn't have a ton. I'd say maybe 10 years later. 2008, 2018. No, that doesn't seem right. 18, 17, 16, maybe five years later.

Helen: Okay.

Alexis: It came on pretty quickly, and that could have been, you know, partially, you know, the woman's body and hormones, and all of the changes that come with hormonal changes.

So, I wonder if that didn't speed things up, or I don't know. I don't know. I was so busy with a baby.

Helen: So that means you were well before the Lockdown, when everybody else,

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: When a lot of people chose to go grey.

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: So, did you stand out a little bit in the beginning?

Alexis: I did. So, I was working in the beauty industry, behind the scenes in industrial design, designing like retail spaces, so like a Boots, Sephora, and working with all the brands. 

So, my interaction with beauty was such that I was very aware of my hair, and it not being kind of de rigueur for the industry. Yeah, it stood out, but it became kind of a calling card. It was not a negative distraction. Do you know what I mean? 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: It was just like, I'm gonna crush it. I'm gonna work it. I'm going to kind of like be in this industry. I'm gonna wear all black. I still do. I'm gonna wear dark colours, I'm gonna red lipstick. And this white flash of hair was just part of my look.

Helen: And what sort of reaction did you get from other people?

Alexis: Nobody cared, I've gotta be honest. I think I cared more than anybody else did. You know, and maybe that's just a typical woman's thing that you're, you know, you think everybody is thinking about it. Nobody's thinking about you. Everybody's just thinking about themselves.

Helen: That's so true. Especially when you start, if you are colouring your hair, and you're growing it out, and you've got quite a lot of grey. You do think you're gonna be judged.

Alexis: Yeah. And it's just not. Like people have other things to worry about, you know?

Helen: Their own appearance.

Alexis: Yes, exactly. Women are funny.

Helen: So, during Lockdown, obviously a lot of women chose to go grey 'cause it was a time when you were at home, and you couldn't get to the hairdressers, and you kind of questioned things, that you hadn't questioned forever, 'cause you were just on the hamster wheel. 

Alexis: So true.

Helen: Have you had a different reaction since then to your hair than before then? Now that there are many more women who've chosen to go grey.

Alexis: You know, for me that was a real pivotal time because that's when I did start my business. I saw the world kind of accepting the change, and going through the change, and enjoying it.

And having like all of these questions about like, what do I do with my hair? And now that it's this, does anybody notice the coarseness? Does anybody notice? And what do I do? 

And having been in the beauty industry, like I had already worked through so many, kind of DIY workarounds for products. And I saw that there was like this growing market, and the world at the time was shopping online. And I was like, man, you know, all the stars are aligning to really do something about this. 

And I say this, that it's scandalous, that a beauty industry that says it's for women, you know, for women. Tells us to hide the fact that we're growing up, you know, and growing older and wiser. And these signs of it are really quite beautiful. 

And when you have the right products, it's amazing. I don't know, you don't have to compromise anymore. It's remarkable. So yes. Do I see it differently? Yes, because I've pivoted completely, my life during COVID. Yeah. To answer this.

Helen: So, what products did you start with first?

Alexis: Silver Sisters out there are gonna understand, eyebrow shades that actually coordinate with our hair tone. It's by far one of our best sellers, because the market just wasn't supplying brow filling products that matched our hair. You know, they're either really warm taupes that look weird, or really dead greys that it's like nobody's brows are that colour. 

'cause grey hair is really, it's a combination of white, and like our natural desaturated tones. So, when you understand that, then you're like, oh so tapping into those desaturated tones, it's like you define the best colour. And yeah, that's where I started.

And then I was like, okay, we need so much more than just purple shampoo. Like, there's so much more that we can do. Better. Yeah.

Helen: So, other than the eyebrows thing, what specific different properties do the products have to what you would have with standard shampoo, or makeup?

Alexis: Oh, well, we have haircare products. We have a couple of products. There's a shine product, and a scalp massage serum. Neither of which have any colour to them. So, they're crystal clear. 

They don't have silicones, because silicones build up on our hair. They take like five washes to wash out, and they'll discolour under UV light. And it chokes off all the moisture to our hair, silicones are like terrible for silvers. 

And then the shine products are, instead of using silicones that are like putting a raincoat over your hair. Like sure, a clear raincoat is shiny, but you're not getting any depth.

Whereas when you put a very light oil on your hair, it brings out the most impeccable sparkle to silvers, and then it deepens those deeper tones. So, you get this definition that like a hair coating product just can't give you. 

Our hair's amazing. It's, yeah, it's amazing. And I love it and I love playing with it.

Helen: I'm always fascinated, 'cause I have never used a purple shampoo. Whereas loads of people swear by them, and I always find it really interesting. I think probably 'cause I don't use a lot of heat on my hair, so maybe it doesn't yellow so much.

Alexis: And yellow can come from all kinds of things, right? So, of course there's heat, extreme heat, and the heat could be baking products on that weren't washed out. And you look like maybe originally did you have light brown hair or

Helen: Yeah. The back's still quite stripy. 

Alexis: Yeah’

Helen: Like a dark blonde. And I”ve got like

Alexis: Yes. So,

Helen: the stripe at the front.

Alexis: Uh.

Helen: that's very

Alexis: gorgeous. Oh my God. I'm so sad this isn't on video. But listen, so you my friend, are more of a sugar and spice, than a salt and pepper. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: And so yeah, purple shampoo, don't do it because that's gonna neutralize all the beautiful warm tones in your hair. 

And like what we have, we don't have a purple shampoo, 'cause purple shampoos are, realistically, they're a base cleaner and conditioner with toning. And that toning is added to a certain ratio to the shampoo. 

And the reality is everybody's hair likes a different shampoo and conditioner, right? Because it depends on your scent preferences, it depends on your environment. Like how humid is it? It depends on the texture of your hair. Like we can't all use the same shampoo and conditioner, but the purple shampoos on the market assume that we can. 

And so, once every few washes, it's like here's your purple shampoo. That's why most women find it so drying, because it's a base cleanser, that's not actually made ideally for your hair, and you're just using it to tone. 

So, what we did is, came up with toning drops. And the toning drops are simply purple drops that you add to a dose of your already working shampoo and conditioner. And you use that every few washes. And you can change the intensity. You can use it if you're growing out your silvers and you have like old dyed ends, so you can kind of create a mask, and like cool down those old tones. 

It's just smarter, you know? It's just like, okay, let's do this better, because what was out there was truly antiquated, and wasn't serving us. But nobody saw us. Like really, I think it takes a Silver Sister, and you know this, it takes a Silver Sister to see a Silver Sister, and to be like, ah, I see you. And like, let's talk about what we need. 

And I just happen to have a background where I can really make things happen.

Helen: Yeah, I used to have my hair bleached, so I actually haven't changed the shampoo and the conditioner that I use at all. Which is I use

Alexis: Well it’s working for you.

Helen: Aveda stuff.

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Helen: And Aveda Damage Remedy Conditioner, which keeps it in good nick, although it only gets washed once a week.

Alexis: Yeah, your hair looks fab. 

But that's the other thing. Most of us only wash our hair, you know, once a week. Honestly, you probably know, it feels better. You know, the more sebum is on your hair, the more kind of natural oils on your hair, the better it feels, the better it behaves. It has kind of a natural softening to it. It's amazing. Again, our hair's amazing.

Helen: Yeah, mine was very, dry and brittle before 'cause it was bleached, and it was very, yeah, just had no moisture to it.

Alexis: Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing what hair colour does to hair. A friend of mine, Ilise Harris she, also during COVID, she saw the world changing. And what she did about it was, created a documentary.

Helen: Yeah, she's been a guest.

Alexis: And she, oh, has she really? 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: God, Ilise is everywhere. I love it. I don't know if you've seen the documentary, but like there's a section in the documentary where there's a woman talking about like the cancer-causing chemicals 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: that are very well known. And it's like what have we been doing? Like what have we been doing? Why have we been putting this on our heads, and on our skin? It's eye-opening, but again, like nobody's gonna study that. DO know what I mean? 

Like, it feels like all of those efforts to get women into STEM. You know, STEM programs, 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: the science technology. It's paying off because when you have women in research positions, they're going to be looking at different things. You know, at science around women, and women's bodies. And I feel like there's this emergence of new information that's remarkable, and I'm just really glad to see it.

Helen: Yeah, I've had a couple of guests who’ve researched quite a lot into the chemicals, one as a result of having cancer. And then another one had liver problems. And both of them kind of were looking then in into, okay, what might be causing this?

Alexis: And were they hairdressers, by any chance?

Helen: No, no, neither of them were.

Alexis: Okay. Because I know that there's like, the number of hairdressers who have liver cancer is bananas. It's like why isn't anybody talking about this?

Helen: I am actually not surprised 'cause my degree was textiles. I was a textile chemist. My first job was

Alexis: Oh, cool.

Helen: factory,

Alexis: Get out.

Helen: playing with dyes. So, yeah. And I've mentioned this a few times on the Podcast, so at the time I was working, which was like late Eighties when I was doing that job. Different dyes were just, every week you'd get another notification that a dye had been withdrawn 'cause it was a carcinogen.

Alexis: Oh man.

Helen: So really not surprised that the ones they use in hair 

Alexis: Yeah.

Helen: are not good for you because it's not news, they've been finding that kind of thing. And the more they test, the more they find. And I've also had a couple of guests who had really extreme allergic reactions 

Alexis: Yes, yes.

Helen: to that dark coloured dye.

Alexis: Yep. And allergic reactions kind of you build up over time. So, you might not be allergic when you first start colouring your hair, 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: but as your hormones change, and as you know, you go through life, your body just reacts differently to things. I've seen some bad stories there too.

Helen: Yeah. One of them was just literally driving to a wedding, and suddenly found herself covered in hives.

Alexis: Jeez.

Helen: And been dyeing her hair for years. It's like, Ooh.

Alexis: Yeah. Suddenly, oh, your body's telling you something. Yeah.

Helen: So, you are developing an App, 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: around the grow out. 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: Tell me a little bit about that.

Alexis: I love this. This is like a passion project. It's a side project. 'cause I'm not busy enough. It was born from the feedback that I get from a lot of my customers who are like on the fence about ditching the dye. Not sure where to start, how to start, what to do. The anxieties that come with, not knowing how to manage it because it is scary, like it really is.

We were talking earlier just about kind of the expectations of women, and also the identity that a lot of women have with their hair, and their hair colour. And when somebody says, oh, it's just hair. I just wanna like slap them. You know? It's like, it's not just hair.

Helen: Classic.

Alexis: You know, this is like, for women, it's like such an incredibly important part of our, you know, how we present ourselves 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: in the World, you know? So, this App, it's a tracking and journaling App, with bits of wisdom that have been contributed by over 50 women. So, women who have silvered, but also have information to share. So, there's daily wisdom. You can follow the stories of women who have provided their grow out stories 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: with pictures of, you know, from month to month. So, you can follow that. And advice, along the way. Plus, an opportunity to journal, and to capture the changes every week. So, at the end of your journey, you get a little video, and you journal back, and you have a way of marking the time.

Helen: Interesting, because I find a lot of people I've spoken to, and myself as well, before you grow out, you're very fixated on roots, and roots being a bad thing. 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: And you're worried that you're gonna be judged for the grow out. And the hardest time is probably like the first three to six months. When in your own head, you're fighting the roots, but you're also thinking people are gonna judge me that I'm being lazy, and that I should be going to get the dye. 

Alexis: Gosh.

Helen: Because it's not necessarily apparent that you've made the decision, and you're doing the grow out. A lot of people are like, after that it gets easier. But I find it quite interesting, 'cause some people kind of then love the ombre effect.

Alexis: Yes, this is something that we've done with the App. So, we studied the grow outs of over 500 women, and we emotionally mapped it. To find, like here at this period of time, here are the great things that people are feeling, and here are the like, not so great things, like the anxieties, and the negatives. 

The entire App is built around like amplifying those good feelings, and like mitigating those hard ones. So that every step of the way you've got like a, yeah, it's hard, but don't forget this. Yes, it's hard and, you know, here are all the positive things, and to focus on the positive.

Because it's like you said, there are points where it's hard.

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: And it is hard, but at the same time so much grows with that grow out. And that growth is for, I'd say 90% of women, is life changing. There's a reassessment of kind of not who you are. I don't wanna be so dramatic about it. But there is just such personal growth. I'm not gonna be able to explain it very well. But the personal growth it’s

Helen: No.

Alexis: Yeah.

Helen: A lot of the people I've spoken to kind of basically said, they feel that they have a lot more self-confidence when they come out the other end 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: than they had when they went in. 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: Because they're questioning a lot of the stuff that they're being fed in advertising and the media,

Alexis: A hundred percent. Yes.

Helen: and that they have been fed since they were very small. And coming to a position where they're kind of, more comfortable with their own choices, rather than just doing what they think is expected of them.

Alexis: Of course. Yes. And there's, I really disliked the overused word, authenticity. But growing closer to yourself, and like who you are. And it's like this is the hair of your ancestors, you know, like you're growing closer to who you are. 

Yeah, it's a remarkable journey. And I feel like there are some women who have captured it, you know, so you have like the Influencers online who are like, oh, watch me in my grow out, you know? And it's like they have all of these pictures. 

But not a lot of women have that record, you know? So, like, I don't know about you. Did you take pictures when you were growing out?

Helen: No.

Alexis: You just did it. You're like here I am now. Yeah.

Helen: I did not. 

Alexis: Yeah.

Helen: Mainly 'cause I don't really like taking my picture anyway. But also, I didn't really feel comfortable at any point during the grow out, until it was finished. And I was one of the ones who, I didn't have a Pixie cut, but I had a layered Bob to get rid of it.

Alexis: Yeah.

Helen: Whereas I've spoken to women who've got like waist length hair, 

Alexis: Yes.

Helen: and they're like, I'm just gonna have the line the whole way down.

Alexis: Yeah. I mean, my Co-Founder, she actually shaved her head. So, she had shaved her head, she had really dark hair, and had been covering her roots, like white, white, white roots. And when it started growing in, she was like, here we go. This is me. 

And, it's again, remarkable. She's just stunning. And I think most women, when you have your real hair colour, like this is what you look like

Alexis: Yeah.

Helen: and nature doesn't screw up, you know?

Helen: Yeah. And you feel comfortable with it.

Alexis: Yes, yes.

Helen: Cool. I feel I haven't asked you many questions. I feel we've kind of mused more than I'm asking.

Alexis: Yeah, I love musing,

Helen: I'm gonna ask you a couple of things. First of all, how do you feel about where you're at in the ageing process?

Alexis: I feel really good. So, I am like mid-fifties, and I've never felt more confident. And that could just be because menopause, and like all those other things that are kind of piling up on top of each other. 

But I feel like I'm at a point now where I've gained all kinds of skills, random skills. And now I'm at this place where I can put them to use, you know, and kind of use everything that I've learned, and pour them into these new projects.

So confident. I feel pretty confident about my ageing. Yes. Yeah. Like who, especially after COVID, like we're so flipping lucky to be here. You know what I mean? Like there are people who didn't get to see their fifties. Like I, yeah. Feel lucky and confident. Yeah, let's say that.

Helen: Cool. And one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what hints and tips would you have for them?

Alexis: Hints and tips? There's an App for that, I think would probably be the first thing I say. 

I would just say, do it. Do it. I mean, the worst that can happen is you finish your grow out, and you're like, nah, this isn't for me. But then you'll know. And like, aren't you curious about what your body's doing? Like what is it making? You know, you look at like cats, I don't know the terrible example, but, you know, that have different coloured hair, and it's like that's who they are. That's what they're meant to be. 

Yeah, I'd say that nothing's permanent. Like, don't worry about it. Just because you do grow out your dye, doesn't mean you have to stay that way, right. 

Helen: Yeah.

Alexis: But, follow your curiosity. And again, like, you know, most women who ditch the dye are just like, why haven't I've done this sooner? You know? Yeah.

Helen: All that time, all that stress, all that money.

Alexis: Right.

Helen: What was it for?

Alexis: Yes. Yeah. Oh, and it's just like hair quality, everything is just better. But I'm biased.

Helen: Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest.

Alexis: Pleasure. Ah, I'm so glad to have been on. Thanks for having me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.