Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Jo Brianti, she's a recognized data protection expert who makes compliance simple for small businesses. She transforms complex regulations into practical, cost-effective solutions that work in the real world. 

Jo was grey by the time she was 30, but after a dyeing trauma, she made the choice to embrace the colour. 

Hello Jo. How are you?

Jo: Hi. I'm fine. Thank you. It's a beautiful sunny day, and that always lifts the spirits,

Helen: I'm gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Jo: Mousey Brown. Poker straight. And it was straight down to my bottom.

Helen: And how long did it stay like that for?

Jo: Until I went to secondary school. It was either in plaits or bunches. Then I went to secondary school, I rapidly cut it off, and that started my journey with experimentation. My teenage years, my hair had various colours, you know, the colour of the Duracell battery?

Helen: Yep.

Jo: I went that colour once. I bleached my hair, and it was like a real, beautiful, white bleached colour. Then I put black over the top, and it went blue. Did that at lunchtime in somebody's house, so I had to get sent home from school, and yeah, there was all kinds of rows with that.

I left school at 16. I went to college and they had like a charity week. And in the hairdressers and beauty section of the college, you could just go and pay a pound. So, this girl said to me, what's your fancy doing? She said, I really want to do, you know, some crazy stuff. So, I said, how about doing leopard print? So, I had a number one, and then she did this spot. 

And it was fantastic, 'cause I went home, and had a conversation with my Dad, had something to eat, went to work. Got home about midnight after working in the pub. My mother blew her stack, and I said, well, Dad didn't say he didn't like it earlier. My Dad ended up in trouble because he hadn't told my Mum. And he was adamant it wasn't like that when I saw her earlier. So, that's some of my journeys. 

And then I suppose. We all age and, it just went to this very, standard Chestnut Brown. I was now working in corporate, and random displays of experimentation with your hair were not necessarily welcome. So just stayed this very ordinary Chestnut Brown colour. 

I think there were two or three shades that I would buy. And there'd be the regularly, sort of six weekly in the bathroom, do the stuff, and spraying on the walls. And you always had an old t-shirt, 'cause you could guarantee the dye would drip down.

And I had children, and it got even more difficult. But I just was not prepared to go grey. 'cause going grey was old, you know? That was my perception.

Helen: Can I take you back a little bit then. So, you were colouring it for fun, and then you were colouring it to look smart for corporate, I guess. At what point did you sort of spot that you were getting white hairs?

Jo: Oh, I was almost fully grey by the time I was 30.

Helen: And you were still only dyeing it every six weeks at that point?

Jo: Yeah.

Helen: So, you must have had quite sort of a fair bit of root showing before you were dyeing it?

Jo: Yeah. Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. You know, at six weeks, you could notice the grey in it, and I was just not ready.

Helen: So, how many years after you went grey did you keep dyeing it for?

Jo: I was in my mid-forties when I made the decision to give up the dye. But there was a triggering event. I had twin boys, and I dropped them off at school. I was working from home, so I got home, had my morning cup of coffee.

Well first I put the dye on, wrapped it up in a towel, and put a Tesco bag on it. 'cause I was going to go and do some work, and I didn't want it to drip. So I put this Tesco bag on, made my coffee, and just forgot about it. I worked all day, and didn't have lunch. Completely forgot about this dye on my hair.

And then I got a phone call from the school, were the children supposed to go into after school club today? And I said, oh, no, no, I forgot about them. I was busy working. I'll come, and fetch them.  Grabbed the keys, got in the car, arrived at the school. 

And the secretary just looked at me, and she had this very strange look on her face. And I said, is everything all right? And her eyes just kind of lifted to my head, and I put my hand there, and there was this Tesco bag. And it had been there since the morning. And I had literally got so busy with doing all sorts of different bits and pieces. 

And then the door opened, and my children walked out, and they just went, oh no Mum, you are so embarrassing. And that was it. From that moment on, I thought, I just can't keep doing this. It was one thing I could just get rid of. It was the cause of much hilarity in the office, and the school, and the staff. 

Helen: So, it was a Mum stress thing then?

Jo: That was the final trigger. I'd already got to the point, and I don't know if other people find this, that you've spoken to, that they kind of, it just feels like a faff to do it yourself, or you are kind of trying to squeeze in that appointment to have it done. Do you know what I mean? 

And it always takes a long time. Yeah, so I'd got really frustrated, and fed up with it by this time. And then this whole incident where I arrived at the school wearing a Tesco bag. I used to have this towel that I used for hair dye, and it didn't matter if it got hair dye on it. And all the rest of it was really old, really tatty, and that was poking out the front of the Tesco bag.

And I can visualize myself now as proud as punch parking the car. Walking from the car to the school and just walking into the reception. You know, already late and flustered, 'cause I'd forgotten to pick the kids up. Which is a terrible, you know, sort of reminder anyway. Having this bag on my head.

And that was it. I just kind of said to my husband about it, he thought it was hilarious, as did a lot of other people. And he said, maybe it is time. And I kind of, no, no, it isn't. No, it isn't. But in the back of my head, I knew he was right. So, yeah, it was a little while after that, that I actually kind of made the decision that it was time for myself.

Helen: Yeah.

Jo: You know. But that was the trigger that started that whole thinking process.

Helen: So, how long after the episode was it until you finally stopped, do you think?

Jo: Oh, it was only sort of like, I suppose two or three months. Because it was the summer. And I remember I'd had this really busy period. And I was having meetings, but it was all from home, and it was easy to kind of hide the fact that I was growing it out. 

And I didn't really have to go anywhere where I could see people. 'cause you could always hide it, I think on an online meeting in a way that you, kind of couldn't, if you went out and saw people. 

So, yeah, it was by the summer. And I remember it well because we were due to go on holiday, kind of like a few days after the end of the school term.

You know, when you are growing your hair out, it kind of all goes a bit misshapen, and you can't kind of get it into any kind of style. Anyway, I'd left it, and left it. 'cause I thought the longer it is, when they put it in a style it'll all be cut out, all the old colour. And I was very lucky that that's what happened.

I went to the hairdressers, and there was just probably about half a centimetre, kind of on the edges. And she said, if I cut it any shorter, it'll be just too short. But it wasn't noticeable really. 

I went away on that first holiday, and I wasn't a hundred percent sure I liked it. Was very sort of salt and pepper grey. It looked a bit, or I felt it looked a bit old. And I just hadn't learnt to live with it. Do you know what I mean? 

It was a really very dramatic change from my constant Chestnut Brown. And I hadn't really thought about what I would look like, looking different with the grey. And I'd never given myself chance to look at what the grey looked like. So of course, as all, the colour had been cut out, and the texture of my hair felt like it had changed. 

I spent a lot of time that holiday wearing baseball caps. 'cause I wasn't sure whether I wanted to be seen as grey at that point. Even though I'd made the decision, I still kind of wrestled with it. But I don't know why, I just did.

Helen: That's quite fascinating, 'cause most people that I've spoken to, the difficult part for them is probably the first two to three inches, where psychologically you're so programmed to cover your roots, that you struggle with seeing them for that long. 

And you probably expect to be judged most at that point, because people just think you haven't got around to doing anything with it. Rather than understanding, by the time it gets a bit longer, that yes, it is intentional. You don’t sound like you had that?

Jo: No. I just kind of kept letting it grow out, and grow out. 

Usually, I was the kind of person where I dyed my hair today. And in the supermarket on Wednesday, I bought the next one automatically, and I was never without. Or if I was doing it at the hairdressers, I had the next hairdresser's appointment lined up. 

And then I hadn't bought one, and I'd been so busy, I'd let it grow out. And I knew that if I let it grow out so far, when I had it restyled and recut, it would all be gone. Yeah. I still hadn't prepared myself for what I would look like in the mirror, just grey.

Helen: Yeah.

Jo: And what I found interesting at the time was, I was looking at myself thinking I'm not quite sure whether I like how I look with grey. But what I found interesting was friends were saying, gosh, you look so much younger. And I just kind of couldn't fathom them that out. 

And anyway, I spoke to my hairdresser about it, and she said, well, sometimes your face and your skin age, grey is part of that blend. She said, and sometimes if the colour that you are dyeing it is not totally congruent with your face, you can look a bit mismatched. Not in a way that you would notice it, she said.

But I have seen people, you know, as a hairdresser, people want to stick with their chestnut or their very dark raven black. And you can see that it's ageing them, because their face, and everything is changing. But their hair tone is still what it was when they were in their twenties, and they're not sort of going with it.

And I said, oh, right, okay. I haven't really given that aspect of it much thought. And she looked at me, and she said, people are right. She said, it does look better. It really did take a while, because I wasn't sure I liked the salt and pepper grey.

But again, it's interesting because since I went grey, my hair has changed colour naturally. And now it's white. 

Helen: Yeah.

Jo: It's mostly like a silver white. There's very little what I would call grey now. And I feel far happier white, than I did what I see now as maybe that interim greyness. I've thought a lot about it as part of the prep for, you know, coming to talk to you about it. I do see that I've gone through, I suppose, a journey through I'm not going to dye it anymore. To I suppose a hairstyle that I felt suited me. And then coming to a place where I'm now, where I really, really love the whiteness.

Looked at you know, some electric blue streaks, and some silver. And you know, my hairdresser said, this is going way back to your teenage years, isn't it?

Helen: The rebel’s back.

Jo: Maybe. You know, my kids are 18 now, and about to fly the nest. And I'm no longer in corporate. And I can be a bit more myself with it. But I am in a place where I just love this white a lot now.

Helen: How long would you say it took you from initially going grey, to feeling comfortable with it?

Jo: I kind of got used to it being grey over a few weeks really, where I'd learn to kind of live with the change, you know? 'cause sometimes it's about making a change, and learning to live with that change. And looking at the new you in the mirror. 

I think it's a bit like when I went from very, very long hair to suddenly this, you know, sort of Bob, that was a huge change. And I remember keep looking in the mirror thinking, oh yeah, you know? And it was a bit the same with going grey. Was not overly in love with that salt and pepper grey.

I wonder whether all of those years of dyeing it had had an impact on it at all, or anything like that. But you know, maybe that's me being a bit drama queen. But suddenly woke up one day, and looked at my hair in the mirror, and thought, gosh, that's looking lovely now. 

It's almost like I've got the colour I wanted, without doing anything other than being a little bit over careful with it now. I found when it first went grey, it was quite a different texture. It feels that it's kind of come full circle, it's soft, and the colour I like.

Helen: So, it sounds like you had quite a lot of positive reinforcement from your friends, around the change. How about your family?

Jo: Well now, let's talk about my Husband, right. He just was, the same as he always is, oblivious. My hairdresser and I have this conversation every time. And we had a bet last time, and she owes me coffee because I said, I promise you, he will not notice that I've changed my hairstyle. It just passes him by. 

So, it took him quite a few days to realize. And I think we were actually driving in the car through Switzerland. So, you know, I'd grown all this hair out, had it cut. And it was only when we were kind of mid journey on our holiday, he said, oh, you didn't dye your hair before we went on holiday. 

The kids, well, you know, two teenage boys. It's like, well, we always knew we were old Mum, and now you've got the hair to match it. I was never likely to get any compliments from two teenagers. Having said that, they are now 18, and it's a lot different. They introduce me to their friends, and it's no longer a thing, I suppose. 

But yeah, my Husband doesn't often notice. It's not just about the grey. He never noticed when I had it coloured, whether I'd had it cut. Or, you know, I changed the colour slightly of my hair, by accident, but anyway he didn't notice that either. 

Helen: My husband never notices, when I've been to the hairdressers, and he is always like, oh, have you had any cut off it?

Jo: Yeah. It's quite funny, when he does notice if I've been to the hairdressers, he’ll say, that looks really nice, you know. And I think he does like colour. But for him, in a way, colour is not a thing that occurs to my husband, at all. Do you know what I mean? 

Whether hair colour, dress colour, shoe colour. I could sit there and say, what do you think of this dress? And he'll go, well it’s a dress? And if I said to him, what do you think, you know, and I showed him a picture of a hairstyle. He’d be, I don't know, what do you want me to say kind of thing.

Helen: Okay. I'm gonna ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what hints and tips would you have for them?

Jo: Oh gosh. Just do it. Just absolutely do it. Don't hesitate. Don't faff. Life is, you know, it's very trite, but life is very short. And when I think of how much time I have spent stuck indoors with my hair colour on. Or in a hairdresser's chair with my hair colour on, when I could have been out doing something.

Just do it. Don't worry about it. The outcome is, you know, not irreversible. If you do it, and you don't like it, you can always go back to your hairdresser and say, dye it again.

Be loud and proud with it. And you may find that there’s a little bit of adjustment, like I talked about. But just go with it, because it is just so much easier to live with, and less time that you spend doing something like that, you know, the dyeing and all that kind of stuff.

And also, you're not gonna have to repaint your bathroom every few weeks, because the dye has splashed up the wall, and you can't get it off, you know. Or you haven't stained your tiles. So, there's all of those benefits to it. 

But be bold, be confident, and just go for it. As I say, if you do and you don't like it, just go back to your hairdresser. Until you try it, you'll never know.

Helen: Cool. Well, thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Jo: Lovely to chat to you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.