Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Minal Patel. She's an email marketing coach working with solo and small business owners. She helps them build an email marketing system that they can confidently manage themselves. Hello, Minal. How are you?

Minal: Hi, Helen. I'm really well, thank you.

Helen: Good. I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Minal: My Mum loves telling this story. When I was born, I had no hair, and she used to spend ages massaging my scalp with almond oil, to encourage hair growth. When I was about maybe two, I had very short hair. 

And then I kind of made up for it growing up, so I had quite thick hair. Sometimes long, sometimes short, just depended on how I felt at the time. But yeah, it was always like a little Indian girl's hair. 

Before I was about probably in my early teens, it was always quite short, and it was always sort of just below my ears. I've had it to long below my shoulders. But as I grew older, I always felt happier with shorter hair. I always felt it suited me better. 

So, generally have some kind of bobbed hair that's short. And in the winter, I grow it a bit longer so my neck doesn't get cold.

Helen: I've got obviously longer hair than you. In the summer it gets tied up because it gets so hot when you've got long hair. Can you remember when you found your first white hair?

Minal: I think it must've been probably in my late 20s. And because there was only like a strand or two, it never really bothered me. It actually never really bothered me for a really long time. And I was persuaded by a hairdresser that I was going to at the time to start colouring my hair because I was starting to get more patches of grey. 

And against my better judgment, I agreed. And therein began my about 15-year journey with colouring my hair. But yeah, I think when I first saw it, I think I was a little bit, probably, a little bit sort of like, "Ooh, I've got grey hair already." 

But, not massively surprised because it runs quite a lot on my dad's side of the family. My aunts started getting greys earlier in life. So, I wasn't particularly surprised, and I wasn't particularly put out. It was just like a, oh, I’ve found one.

Helen: But you weren't that bothered about it?

Minal: No, I can't say that I was. I maybe at that point because it was only the one, and the rest was just my natural colour, which is like a dark brown, almost black. So yeah, no, it didn't bother me at all.

Helen: But it obviously, after a time bothered your hairdresser.

Minal: It bothered my hairdresser a lot, and it took her quite a lot of persuasion, persuading me, because I was just like, "Oh, it'll grow naturally, and it'll come out, and it will, you know, the greys will come where they're meant to come, and it'll all grow out. " And, she just wore me down. She just wore me down.

And then, at the time, because I didn't have loads, and most of them were concentrated around like underneath at the back of my head, so like, quite close to my neck. So, I never used to get the roots showing early on, when I started colouring my hair.

And then as I started getting greyer underneath, then, you know, you go and get your hair done, and then two weeks later the silvers and the greys are starting to show again. I can't say that I was really that bothered about that, but more that it made it look messy, because I'd spent time, and effort, and money to get it a colour, and then it was showing through again.

But on some level, I must have been bothered by it to have kept on colouring it for so long, before making the decision that actually I'm gonna grow it out.

Helen: How old were you when you started colouring it?

Minal: What would I have been? Maybe early 40s. Yeah.

Helen: And you said you coloured it for 15 years.

Minal: Around that, yeah. So, I'm 57, next week.

Helen: What was the trigger for deciding to stop dyeing it?

Minal: So last year, I think I'd just got to the point where I'd been saying to myself that I should. Mentally I'd made the decision that I was gonna stop doing it when I turned 60. And then part of me just went, "But that's a whole another three years."

And I went to an event last year, and there was a lady there who kind of was at the stage where I am with my hair growing out. And she was Asian as well. And I had to go and speak to her. I said, "Oh my gosh. I've been thinking about doing this, and I keep thinking I'll do it when I'm 60. But like, how has it been for you? " 

And she was, I think, in her 40s, and she said that she had been nervous about growing out her hair. But she'd gone traveling, and she said that, you know, having her roots done wasn't an option. And she'd got so far, and she thought she'd just keep going.

And I asked if I could take a selfie with her, and I just kept looking back at that photo, and just thinking, actually do you know what? It doesn't really look that bad on her. Like, it doesn't look as awful as you might imagine it to do where it's part grey, and part the colour that it had been dyed.

And then as I got closer to the end of last year, I just thought, I don't know that I can spend another three years, of three hours of my life, every six weeks at the hairdressers. Because I didn't go every two weeks like some women do touch up the roots. So, I'd go every six weeks. I'd have my roots done. I'd have a cut, and a blow dry, and that'd be me done for six weeks. 

But then I thought that that's three years-worth of three hours every six weeks. And the money it costs as well, because it's not cheap. Part of me just thought that, you know, it's time that I can't get back, because I wear glasses, I don't wear contact lenses. So, all the while that the colour was being put in, and my hair getting cut, being blow dried, I couldn't do anything but just sit there.

And sometimes it was great, because you've just had one of them days, one of them weeks, and you just think, oh, I just wanna sit in this chair, and not talk to anybody, and not do anything. But it just felt like so much wasted time. 

So yeah, I just got to the point where at the end of last year, I talked to my hairdresser and I said, "Should I just grow it out? " And then, one of the other stylists heard me talking about it. And she's a colour specialist, and she said, "Oh, what we should do is, colour your roots slightly lighter this time. In preparation for taking all of it a bit lighter, so that it can be blended, and the grey will grow out.”

I was a little bit dubious, but I went along with it, persuaded by hairdressers again, because they're the experts. And then a couple of weeks before I was due to have the over-all colour put in, I went into the hairdressers and I said, "Well, you sent me pictures of the colours that you're thinking of. But I don't get a true perspective from a picture, so can I see the colours?"

And it turned out that they were very close to blonde. And I was just like, "Nope, nope, don't wanna be blonde." And so I just said, "Right, cancel the colour appointment. I'm gonna come in, and I'm gonna have a wash, cut, and blow dry." And so, I think before Christmas last year was the last time any colour was put in my hair, and then it's just been growing since then.

Helen: That's about five months, isn't it?

Minal: Yeah.  It was probably December, but earlier on in December, so yeah, coming up for five months.

Helen: And how long are your roots now, would you say?

Minal: it's difficult to tell. Maybe, I don't know, maybe, what is that?

Helen: About five centimetres, maybe?

Minal: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

Helen: And it just looks slightly lighter next to them, but that might just be the grey underneath. 

Minal: So, the top is all grey. There's just, like a

Helen: Yeah.

Minal: little band, just sort of a two-centimetre band, where they took it to that lighter colour. And then the rest of it is my hair that's growing, the natural colour that it is now. And in the warmer months, my hair tends to grow quicker anyway.

At the beginning of May, it'll be two months since I went, and had it last cut. So, it's grown quite a lot since then. So, I imagine that, I think in my head, by the end of this year, I'll be completely grey.

Helen: Cool. How are you feeling about the two-tone effect?

Minal: I really thought I'd be bothered by it, but I'm not. I network quite a lot locally, through our Chamber events. And I went out to dinner with a couple of the ladies that I've met through the Chamber, last week, and they all told me it looked great. So, I thought I would be really bothered. I thought I would feel like it had a detrimental effect on how I look. 

But generally, like unless I'm doing something like this, where I can see myself on camera. Or I'm actually doing something with my hair, and I can see myself in a mirror. Like day to day, I don't get to see it. It's only the people who see me, who get to see it. 

And as time's gone on, because I thought I would be quite self-conscious going places, and, you know, seeing people that maybe hadn't seen me for a while. Or like, took my dad to a funeral last week, and there were quite a few of our relatives there. But it didn't occur to me once that they might be looking at my hair going, "What is going on with that? ". 'Cause I think, I've just got to a point of forgetting that it's growing out sometimes, like unless I actually just see it.

Helen: How did your friends and family react to your choice to grow out?

Minal: So, I don't know that my Mum's noticed, but she's knocking on 83. And it's not a dissimilar colour to the grey that she is. 

A few years ago, when I said to my Husband, "I'm thinking of stopping colouring my hair," he immediately said, "No, don't do it. " And this time, he was like, "Yeah, okay, if that's what you want.” So, his reaction has completely changed from what it was a few years ago. 

And I think when I said it a few years ago, I don't think maybe I was ready, because when he said, "No, don't do it, " a little bit of me felt relieved. And I think even if he'd have said, "Don't do it this time," I think I had made up my mind already that I'd kind of had enough. And that I didn't have to have, you know, non-grey hair to look okay. 

And then, yeah, friends have just been like, "Oh, that actually looks good." Some people have told me that, it looks like a be bay bay large.

Helen: Balayage.

Minal: There we go. One of them. Yeah, and now most people don't actually say anything, because they just used to see me growing it out. But there are quite a few women I know locally who either are in the process of doing it, or have done it. And all of them have said that they just feel so liberated.

Helen: No longer tied to dyeing at every X many weeks.

Minal: I think the big thing was like slotting in those hair appointments. I don't like being in the hairdressers when it's really busy and noisy. Find it a bit overwhelming, and not a relaxing experience. So, trying to find those quiet times, and then balancing that with my business, and client work. 

And just thinking that all of that will be gone soon. It pretty much is gone, because now I'm only going every two months. And it's half the price that it used to be when I'm colouring my hair. So, I'm saving half the cost, which means, you know, I can spend it on other things, or spend it on the dog most likely. But, you know, I can go and have nice meals or I can go and buy something new to wear, or go and get my nails done if I want to.

So yeah, it just feels like it frees up time, money, and to a certain extent, energy to go and do other stuff.

Helen: I can kind of sympathize with you with the sitting in the hairdressers, not able to do anything. Because I have reading glasses. And I used to have my hair bleached, so I couldn't really leave the glasses on. 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: And at the time I could read magazines, it was quite fun to just sit, and thumb through those. But then you kind of reach a point of going, "I can't read these anymore."

Minal: Yeah. Not unless I have them almost touching my nose. 

Helen: Yeah.

Minal: ‘Cause I'm so short-sighted. So, I'd get maybe, the half hour where the colour was taking where nobody was doing anything, I could put my glasses on. and have half an hour of reading a book. But yeah, the rest of it just felt a little bit like empty time.

And I know it's like sometimes you go and do those things, and you think, I should just relax and I should just enjoy the process. But when you run your own business, you've always got thoughts running around in your head. 

Helen: I didn't really like the smell of the chemicals either.

Minal: No, not great, no. And also, what it's doing to your hair, I suppose. I was a bit nervous about what the regrowth would be like, and how healthy it would be underneath having coloured it for so long. But actually, I think the quality of the regrowth and how it looks, it doesn't feel damaged, so that I'm quite pleased with that.

Helen: Yeah, mine's definitely in much better condition now that I don't colour it.

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: Because I had it bleached, so it dried it out a lot, and it was quite brittle on the ends. 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: And I don't get that anymore.

Minal: Yeah. Nice.

Helen: Have you made any extra effort with grooming, or makeup, or anything else like that, during your grow out?

Minal: To be honest, I kind of gave up on make-up a while ago. And I think that's because I always used to spend time and effort on my hair. I've started wearing a bit of make-up again. But if I'm honest, I find it quite cloying. And like my skin doesn't feel like it can breathe when I've got make-up on. So, I try and wear as little as possible.

I wear it if I'm going to an event, or going out. But on a day-to-day basis, it's bare face. Even like yesterday I saw clients, I went to their office, bare face. And I don't feel self-conscious about that. I think the less you wear make-up, the more normal it feels.

I think we're conditioned to do things like wear make-up, colour our hair, to fit in with society's, I guess, image of what women should be. But yeah, I don't wear it every day. If I wear makeup three times a month, that's quite a lot.

Helen: No judgment here. I never really got into it. Another question then. How do you feel about where you're at in the ageing process?

Minal: I feel pretty comfortable. I've never kind of been scared of ageing. I think when I was younger, there is a lot of pressure on Asian women as they're growing up. And I was the eldest, or I am the eldest, in my family. And there was quite a lot of expectation for me to get married, and have a family, and da, da, da, da, da.

And I felt that pressure a lot when I turned 30 because I was still single, and, you know, by that point I was over, the ... Is it over the hill? Yeah. But then as my 30s progressed, and I got to 40, and I still wasn't married, I started feeling more comfortable in my skin. 

And people have always told me that I look younger than I am, so when I was 40, people never believed me. Things like I would get ID'd at the supermarket for buying a bottle of wine, or I'd get ID'd for buying a lottery ticket at 40. When I met my husband, some of his friends thought I was in my mid- 20s, and in fact, I'm like four months older than my husband. 

So, at no point have I ever hidden my age. I've never, you know, it is what it is. I can't change it, by hiding it. I can't say I'm younger or anything. I don't feel younger. I guess the only thing, that worries me, and I guess that is within my gift of changing, is the aches and pains that you get as you get older, but that's for me to work on, and sort out. 

But, for me, ageing is a natural process, and the longer I live, the more I see it as a privilege that I'm still here. It's quite funny because I do worry a lot about things that are out of my control. I'm a bit of a natural worrier. But this is the one thing that I don't worry about. And I can't tell you why. I don't know why. 

But yeah, before I was 30, it used to worry me a lot about getting older. And I think it's more about society's expectations of me, and having not achieved those. But by the time I was in my mid 30s, I had a good career. I was pulling a good salary. Didn't buy my house until later. But you know, bought my own house, you know, responsible for myself.

So, I felt like all of those expectations perhaps, as they lifted, it made me think that actually there is no plan, there's no schedule in life. You get to where you get to where you get to, when the time is right. And I didn't meet my husband until I was 42, we didn't get married until we were 45, so, you know, they happen when they happen.

Helen: Are you doing anything to age healthily?

Minal: Have to say that I'm really bad for that, because I can be a bit of a couch potato, and I am a homebody. So, I'm working on changing habits. So, we cook everything from scratch. So, like very little processed food. Homebody so I don't go out a lot. So, there's no rich foods or stuff like that.

Gentle exercise every day. I'm not a runner, but at least, you know, a walk a day getting outside. Gardening which you think is quite a leisurely activity, but it's not. It can be quite strenuous. 

And then just doing things to look after my body. So, my body has a tendency, like my hips I think the right slide slants down and twists, so regular visits to the osteopath to realign myself. And make sure that anything that comes up, he's giving me exercises that I can do, in between times, to maintain the work that he's done with me.

So, that appointment is coming sooner rather than later, because I've got a rather big event in June. So, I want to go and see him before that event, because I know for two whole days I'm gonna be running around, and gonna be on my feet. So rather than use it as an after thing, and say like, "Can you fix me?” It's a bit of a preventative thing, to help me get ready for something that I know is gonna be quite strenuous.

Helen: One last question. If someone came to you and said, "I'm thinking about stopping dyeing my hair, and going grey," any advice and tips for them?

Minal: I'd say If you're thinking about it, then you've almost made that decision. Before I decided, I'd been thinking about it for a little while, and it just took a few things to knock me over the edge, and say, "Right, I'm going to do it."

I'd say definitely talk to your hairdresser, and figure out the best route for you. Because there's lots of advice out there, and there's loads of hairdressers that do this grey blending thing. But I think that's more processes, and more chemicals on your hair. So, if that's not right for you, don't be afraid to say no like I did and say, "No, I'm just gonna grow it out." 

And I think, you know, like take time to style it, and make it look nice. If you're tempted to go back to colouring it, what would help you feel nice about your hair? So, I know that for me, when I wash my hair, and let it dry naturally, as it gets longer, it curls. But if it's shorter, it just looks a complete mess.

So, what helps me feel good is straightening it, and making it look sleek, and glossy, and it does that, with some care. So, like take care of your hair. And the more that you do that, the better I feel the regrowth will be. 

Talk to other women who are doing it. I think the lady that I met at the event that I attended last year, really got me thinking about it. Because up until that point, I'd never actually met somebody who was doing it. And in my head, I just kept thinking, oh, it's gonna look awful. It's gonna look awful. I'm gonna look bad. 

And I run my own business, I go to events, I speak at events. Whilst I'm not hung up on my image, you have to have a certain kind of professional image, and I felt like I wasn't gonna get that. I think it's not as bad as you think it's gonna be.

I don't know how I'm gonna feel, when half my hair is grey, ‘cause it's not quite half yet, and the tips are coloured. I don't know how I'm going to feel. But I think you just have to take it a stage at a time. But if you've made the decision, I think you just need to take a deep breath, and do it, and see how you feel.

And if it's awful, you can always go back to colouring your hair, if you feel really, really bad about it. But I haven't met anyone yet, who's started it, and gone back to colouring their hair.

Helen: I've met a couple of people. 

Minal: Have you? 

Helen: Both went grey again afterwards. But yeah, for various reasons, they did re-colour it. So, some people do, and it's just how it is.

Minal: I think it's an individual decision, isn't it? 

Helen: Yeah.

Minal: And it took me a long time to come to the decision. I don't think I will go back to colouring it. I feel ready for it to just grow out, and then for it to be what it is. 

I do look at it now and I think, oh, maybe I need a bit of a restyle, but I wanna wait until more grey appears to see what that might look like.

Helen: It'll be interesting to see, you know, with you said with the half and half. So, people react in different ways. 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: So, I got to the stage where I just wanted the colour gone. 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: So, I did have it cut a bit shorter, and layered. 

Whereas I've had other people who just love the two-toner effect, and the balayage effect, and get lots of compliments for it, 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: So, they feel comfortable with it. 

Minal: Yeah.

Helen: So, it is a very personal thing. 

Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Minal: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.