Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or are just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Victoria Marie. She's the producer-director of the award-winning documentary, "Gray Is the New Blonde," that had its red carpet premiere in Los Angeles in January 2020, and it can be viewed on her website. She's also the founder of the Menopause Community, with pages on Substack, Medium, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Hello, Victoria. How are you?

Victoria: I'm doing fabulous, thank you.

Helen: I’m going to start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Victoria: My hair's always been very, very curly. I've always had a ton of hair, just more hair than I knew what to do with. And growing up, it was almost black. 

And what I've noticed as I've met many, many women interviewing them for the Film, the darker the hair originally, the whiter and brighter the grey/silver. It seems the women who have lighter brown, or towards blonde, you just don't see it as vibrantly as you do with women who have darker hair. That's what I noticed.

Helen: Interesting, 'cause my hair was like a dark mousy blonde colour, and I have some very white streaks in my hair, at the front and underneath. But it still has a lot of the other colouring at the moment. I'm sure it'll go paler. And my sister, who was a redhead, her hair just faded. 

Victoria: Yes.

Helen: So, she went from a very strong auburn-y colour, to she's much more of a strawberry blonde now.

Victoria: So, you're both going grey. That's awesome.

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first white hair, how old you were?

Victoria: Yes. I didn't see it. Someone in the gym saw it. I spent a lot of time in the gym. And he came up to me, I don't really remember who it was. I just remember I was in the gym. I was standing at the counter. And he comes kinda to my side, and I guess he was looking at my hair 'cause I had a whole lot of it. I still have a lot of it, but not the amount I used to have. 

And, he says, "Oh, you have a grey hair." And he proceeds to yank it right out of my head. I just was like, "Uh..." When I think about that, how invasive to go and, But, I've heard this before. I'm not the only one. I've heard that story before. And so yeah, that's how I discovered it.

But it did nothing for me. Nothing to me, nothing for me. I didn't think about it after that. Nothing. I didn't care. Honestly, that's really what it came to. I didn't care.

Helen: Did you ever reach a point where you did care enough to start dyeing it?

Victoria: No. I did dye it, but I dyed it for a different reason. Coming from New York City, I grew up in New York City, it's a very fashion-focused town, city, and, I was very into fashion, and very into the, you know, trendy clothes. And so, it was really to just have a new look. 

I didn't get to that place where it's like "Oh my God, my roots, I gotta do it." I didn't ever. It just wasn't something I thought. I just didn't think about it, so I didn't. 

But I do remember a particular time, one instance went to see a friend, and I had like this much growing in. And I don't know what he said. He may have said very little. It's just I remember that particular exchange. He was sitting, he noticed, and then that was it. 

And then one other time, much later, years later. I had another friend, we're not that close anymore, he wanted to not only pay for me to dye my hair, but he was gonna take the time to go make that appointment for me. 

I'm like, "Uh, no, I'm not. You can do whatever you want. I don't care. I'm not dyeing my hair. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you say. I'm not dyeing it. I like it. That's it. Period, end of story. We're done."

Helen: Was that after you'd let it grow out or 

Victoria: Oh yes.

Helen: you were still dyeing it?

Victoria: It was all grey. Short grey. That was around 2002.

But then my friend telling me, you know, "I'm gonna pay for it and I'll go make the appointment." How ridiculous. That was in 2005. 

Helen: Okay.

Victoria: So, by 2005 it was all grown in.

Helen: So, you were kind of treating your hair as a bit of an accessory really when you were dyeing it. In terms of

Victoria: Yes, that's exactly what I was doing.

Helen: And were you changing colour?

Victoria: No. I loved auburn red. I loved that colour, and it looked really good on me. That shade, that deep brownish, reddish, and that's kinda what I always went for. I just loved that. It was a very '40s look, and I would wear it, you know, styled. It was not quite as long as it is now, which it's kind of a mess right now.

So, it was really to have a look. That was it, it was to have a look. I had a short phase in the '90s where I literally would have it buzzed, and just have a few sprinkles of hair in the front. It was very cute, 'cause I have a very small head and face, and so it would look very cute. That was before I got old, and before the face started to fall. And it looked good. Now I wouldn't go short, 'cause my cheekbones are not high enough to carry it. 

But I love short hair on a woman. It's very powerful to me. But I don't know, with grey hair to me, grey hair needs to be long. I love it when I see women like yours with that beautiful long, silky. For me, to see all the different beautiful shades of grey, hair should be long. So that's how I see grey hair, long.

Helen: Which is kind of a rebellion from, like decades ago it would be you would keep dyeing it, and then when you stopped dyeing it, and admitted that you were old. You would have it cut short, and obviously, have it shampoo and set my grandmother used to be every week. It used to be like totally rigid hair.

Victoria: And who made that rule? I think a man made that rule. Just because you reached an age, you're now gonna cut your hair short. What? Says whom? Who made that rule?

Helen: It is crazy. And I would have to say my hair is longer now than before I let it go grey, because I used to have it bleached, and it used to get very dry and brittle on the ends. And also, it was like a lemony colour, which all bleach blonde is, 

Victoria: Yeah.

Helen: and that's, you know, not a great colour on me. It makes me look very sort of washed out.

Victoria: Right. 

Helen: So, I couldn't have it long, 'cause it made me look ill.

Victoria: Right. Right. Don't you love it now? It's gorgeous. Just keep letting it grow and just to see how long it. 'Cause it's so gorgeous, and I bet you get a lot of compliments when you walk outside. I betcha. 

Helen: I do. Yeah, I get very often the, "If my hair was your colour, I'd go grey too." 

Victoria: Right. And you think, but you don't know what it's gonna be.

Helen: Exactly.

Victoria: But, yeah, that's a very common, response. "Oh, it looks good on you, but it would never look..." You keep dyeing. You keep going every two weeks. You keep living your life around that bottle. Okay. We know better. We know better. 

Helen: Each to their own. 

Yeah, I think the other thing is that because the only part of the roots you see when you're dyeing it, is the bit at the front, so you kind of assume that your hair is gonna be all that colour. So, I thought my hair would be a lot whiter than it is, because the back of it's not got nearly as much white in as the front.

Victoria: Right. And that's everybody. That's everybody, even me. You could see a lot of dark up in through here. That's just, the nature of grey hair. Most women will have a streak of white in the front somewhere.

Helen: I think I've interviewed over 100 people and only two people are very dark at the front still and 

Victoria: Oh, that’s interesting.

Helen: Actually, have grey on the top, more on the crown. 

Victoria: Oh, wow,

Helen: Yeah, I was kind of like, "Well, that's really unusual." But I have interviewed a couple who are like that.

Victoria: Oh, I wonder what ancestry DNA thing, has to do with the fact that there'll be a small portion of the population, I would think men and women, that the lighter pieces would be back here. I just wonder, where did we evolve? What part of the World did that come from, you know, and then we migrated. Anyway, that's pretty fascinating.

Helen: I don't know, but somebody once described it to me as, your grey hair colour is, as individual as your fingerprint,

Victoria: Oh, yes.

Helen: And I like that. I think that kind of sums it up.

Victoria: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's very true, and there's no one on earth who has your exact shade. No one has your same pattern, your same colouring. It's unique to you.

Helen: So, what was the trigger for you deciding that you weren't gonna dye it anymore?

Victoria: Oh, it was 9/11. It wasn't really a decision. So, when 9/11 hit, I had just opened a tanning salon, called Glow. And that was right at the base of the George Washington Bridge, and on the New Jersey side. 

And when 9/11 hit, that very next morning, they went around to all the businesses around the Bridge, and made us leave, vacate, evacuate. Because there was a big threat that all of the bridges and tunnels were gonna be blown up.

And so, it was very soon after that, it was because I had just opened, I was not able to stay open. I had a difficult decision. I had to close. And when I closed, I had to move out of the State. Because I had planned to be there for decades, and I had decided I would have my living quarters right under my store, at least for a year or two, until things kinda got going, and it was all solidly in place. 

Well, when they made us close and then I realized, okay, I probably should leave. I reopened for a day or two, whatever I did, and then I needed to leave the State. Close it down. And, when I did, you know, that was not a very good time in my life, not at all. 

And I came to my family, they were in a different State than I was in. And I had to kinda get my life back. And so that's when the grey hair started coming in, and it wasn't even a thought. That was the trigger.

Helen: You had bigger things to worry about.

Victoria: Oh my goodness, yes. Yes, I did. And so, it just came in, and I was okay with it, and I thought, "Oh, okay. We're doing this now." 

Helen: So, you didn't have any sort of stress during the grow out, related to your hair, because you were too busy worrying about other things?

Victoria: Too busy trying to survive. And even if someone had a negative thought about it, I don't recall anyone ever really saying anything. But then again, the country was trying to heal. We were right after 9/11, and I think people were thinking of bigger things at that time, and my hair colour I don't think was really in people's radar. And I was not in a big city when I moved back to my family. They were in a smaller city, in the South, and so It just wasn't anything really, for me.

Helen: So what year was that?

Victoria: So that, so 9/11 was 2001. And then I left immediately, in October of 2001, I was already leaving to move out of the State. And it grew in real quick, and it was much shorter. I remember now thinking back. Yes, it was super short. It was a pixie cut, come to think of it. 

Helen: Okay.

Victoria: That's right. It was a pixie cut, and it got grey real quick. It was during that time with my short grey hair. I like to compete in figure fitness and bodybuilding, and I competed in a I guess, figure or fitness, I can't remember what it was back then, with the grey hair. As I think back now, I'd forgotten all about that. But yeah, I did that, and I had short grey hair.

Helen: That's interesting, 'cause I always think of that sort of sector as being, very prescriptive in terms of what they wanna see. I always assume it's like the hair that's very shiny, and in a certain style, and the whole look.

Victoria: Oh, you mean the figure fitness, bodybuilding shows?

Helen: Yeah. Am I wrong?

Victoria: No, not with your hair. But I think some women kind of gravitate towards that look, because it's kind of the culture. They see what other women are doing. But the requirements that those competitions have more to do with your weight, and the type of poses that are mandatory, that you're required to strike. 

But if you're not on stage looking good, that includes your hair. I did not place. I was too soft. But I loved doing the show, and I'll do another one at some point in my life. But they have heavy duty requirements on the type of suit you should be wearing, the type of poses, that kind of thing.

Helen: So, how old were you when you let your hair go grey?

Victoria: I was 40. Yeah. So, it was 27 when that first grey hair came, or that person found it. And then 2001, I was 40 years of age, so 40, 41.

Helen: Okay. So relatively young grey hair.

Victoria: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. but I just let it keep going, and it was very dark in the beginning, and yours will get lighter too, but over time it just keeps getting lighter, and lighter, and lighter.

Helen: Obviously, much later 2020, when you had the Film, 

Victoria: Yeah.

Helen: what was the inspiration for creating the Film?

Victoria: Okay. So, I'm living in Florida. I started a YouTube channel because I knew I was planning to move to California. Because I was gonna go to California, and I was gonna follow in the footsteps of these older actresses that didn't get there until they were in their 50s, and they had a good career. 

And so, I had always thought about that. I did a movie with Burt Reynolds prior to that, which kinda put the fire in me. Well, I don't have anything holding me in Florida. I should go and pursue something I've always thought about. And so, I moved to California. 

So, while I was in the planning stages, and I'm living in Florida, I set up this YouTube channel to kinda get going. And I did a video, a five-minute video in July of 2013, and it's still up on the channel, and I called it “Gray Is the New Blonde”. And I talked about my hair going grey, and I had maybe two inches of growth.

After I posted that, I really had a very small channel, actually, I still have a small channel, but back then it was like 80 people following me. But that one video though, it got a lot of comments, and people responding, and engaging. And I thought, "Oh, well, what is this? Why would anybody care about my grey hair?" 

But the reason I did the video was because I knew I was not going to dye my hair to go to California. Even though I knew that that would probably work in my favour, I didn't wanna do that. I wanted to show up as me with my grey hair, and whatever roles I would get, I would get.

So, I knew I wasn't gonna dye my hair, and so I made that video with that thought in my mind. But it got a lot of engagement, and I was quite surprised, but I realized, oh, I had hit a nerve. Didn't really know much about why, but I thought one day I'll do something with this. 

Went to California, a year in once I realized, oh, I'm in my 50s. I have grey hair. I have this incredibly fit body, not normal for someone my age, and they didn't know what to do with me. I wasn't the grandmother type. So, there were no roles for me. 

So, I'm there a year, and I'm just thinking, "Well, okay, well, what am I gonna do? I'm not leaving. I'm not dyeing my hair. I'm not gonna gain 40 pounds so I can get grandmother roles. I'm not doing any of those things. Well, what am I gonna do?" 

Well, I was doing background, I was doing commercials, but that's not what my goal was. And so, I thought, "Well, I gotta deal with the reality of this." And I said, "Okay, I'm making a movie, 'Gray Is the New Blonde.'" And I thought I was gonna be done in a year. I was so naive. 

Well, over time, because when I have an idea in my mind, and it's a goal, that's it. I'm stuck. I have to do it. I can't see outside of that goal. But anyway, I had tunnel vision, and I was gonna do this. Yet, I didn't have any experience. I didn't have any contacts. I had zero. And I had no money. I had no money. When you have money, oh, you can move the world. 

I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I just started doing things. And over time, I found the people, and everything came together. It was really just putting one foot in front of the other. And I wanna say this for everyone listening to this right now who has an idea in their head, and they just have had it for a long time, and they think they need this, that, or the other: you need nothing. You need to just start. 

Because trust me, the path arrives once you start. You don't always know which path you're gonna be taking, but it does arrive. And the people arrive. Oh, I'm getting chills just saying it, because it's true. And so, I wanna encourage anyone listening to this, take that first step. Take that first step. Fulfill your life. 

And don't worry about the naysayers. I did a video about the naysayers too. It's up on my YouTube channel. Because there will be naysayers. Oh, yes. Well-meaning family, friends, people who love you, people who want the best for you, because they are looking at it through their eyes. What if I had listened to the naysayers? 

Helen, you and I would not be talking right now. I wouldn't have made that movie. I would not have helped millions of women across the world, who found inspiration and guidance with that movie, with people who were just like them. Where they could see that movie, and relate to those women in that movie, because they were walking a very similar path. 

So had I listened to the naysayers, none of that would've gotten done. But I'm not that way. I don't give a flying you know what. It's just who I am. I go forward, and sometimes I look like an idiot. What are we gonna do? But sometimes I look like the master of the universe because I took a chance and I did it.

Helen: How long did it take you to create the film?

Victoria: It took five years. Not only did I think, "Oh, I'm gonna get this done in a year." For me, the five years was like, "Oh my God, I can't do this anymore." I wanted to quit so many times. 

And people told me afterwards, people who are real documentarians... I did one film. I'm not a real documentarian. I'm talking about people who make documentaries, that's their passion, their life. They told me, "Five years, that's so short. Wow, you did a great job. I can't believe you only did it in five years. There are people doing documentaries for 15 years."

Helen: What happened next?

Victoria: Okay. The good juicy part of the story is this. I needed someone to do all the filming. I needed what they call a director of photography, a cinematographer, and I put my feelers out on Facebook. 

And in walks this beautiful, handsome young man, 30 years younger. And guess what? We eventually moved in together. We were together for six and a half years. 30 years younger, I didn't see it that way. Neither did he. But in retrospect, that was a big age gap. 

But he would have stayed with me had I stayed in California, but I didn't wanna stay in California. I wanted to be closer to my family, so I left. And he didn't wanna leave, he wanted to be with his family. Which it worked out beautifully. I'm happy for that. But at the time I was a little upset, but not really. It was for the best. 

So, the juicy story is, I meet him, he has all the cameras, all the knowledge, all the experience. I just had to arrive with the idea. And so, he had access, he had free access to all of that, and he had already been doing short films. He was his own filmmaker, because he grew up in California. He grew up in all of that, and so he just knew things.

And so off to the races we went, and we made that Film. But along the way we ended up living together. Along the way, he kinda got tired of the Film. He kinda got tired of doing it. He was over it, and it had to continue to get done. So, there were many disagreements. There were many times that I was so close to quitting, many things of that nature. 

And so, towards the end, I was doing a lot of the work. But that's just how I am. I wanna get in there. and do it exactly the way I want it. It has to be perfect. It's a curse, and a blessing at the same time, this perfection thing. Oh my goodness. But we finish the Film. 

And as we're finishing it, I'm looking for places to have the red-carpet premiere. I needed to go find that location, that theatre. And so, I went and looked at a lot of different theatres. 

Oh, when we finished the Film, I skipped a step. We had to take the Film, and go rent a theatre that he and I just sat in, no one else was there, to look at the Film on the big screen to see what we were gonna see. And we had to do that a few times because I would see things, "Oh, we can't have that," or, "Oh, look, I forgot to put that," or whatever. And so, we had to do that a couple times to make sure the Film was the way it needed to look on the big screen, not just on the computer. 

Then, as this is all happening, and I'm working, and he's working, I'm now starting to look for the venue. And not only for the venue, but also where we would have the After Party after seeing it on the big screen, it had to be close. Anyway, I did all that, got it all set up, got the venue, paid for everything, the whole thing. and it was a whole lot of work. 

And honestly, Helen, if someone said, "We're gonna do that now," now that I'm 65, now that it is 2026. I'd be like, "I don't know how I'm gonna get this done." Like to me, it wasn't a big thing back then. It was just I was gonna go do this. Now I'm in awe that I did it. Almost like I can't believe I did it, to be honest. I'm awe-struck. But I'm so glad I stuck with it, and I'm so glad I didn't quit, and I'm so glad of all those things. 

But after, we finished the movie, we had to go make sure it looked good on screen, go find the venue, go find the After Party, send out all the invitations. Just a lot of back and forth to get ready for that day. 

I was supposed to go have my makeup done professionally. And we had a sick kitty, and we had to rush to the vet that morning. I barely had any makeup on at all for the premiere for my pictures or anything. And unfortunately, my kitty, we had to put him down, a few months after that.

So yes, it was a big deal. And then I was planning to do an entire tour throughout the US, and it was for May. I was starting to put all the movie theatres in place, get everything scheduled, get a host for each city. A silver sister was gonna host her own event, and I was gonna work with her. 

And then COVID, and it's like, "Okay, well I guess we're gonna do it in July then. Don't worry, we'll do this in July." Yeah, no, July didn't happen. We know what happened.

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: And so, I had to kinda just let it go for a moment. And then, my Mom got very ill, and so that's why I moved, and she passed away in August of 2024. And so, nothing happened with the movie. I literally did not do a thing with it for years.

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: And now it's an evergreen film. There are women right now thinking about it, "Should I do this?" 

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: And they don't even know the Film exists. So, I wanna keep promoting it. I wanna get it out there. And in fact, this magazine, what's it called? Voyage Destination, I think. Anyway, they're interviewing me for their magazine. They have magazines all over the United States.

So, things are starting to percolate again, because women need encouragement, and they need to feel supported, and seen. And unfortunately, a lot of times when women are being judged, and made to feel less than, it's from other women.

Helen: Yeah, that's my experience.

Victoria: Yes, I know. I see it. And that really comes from a place of insecurity, from the woman who is insecure is going to make another woman feel bad about herself, because she has to feel better. 

I always use that same analogy, when dating men. And this was the thought I always had about men. When I was in my 20s, I just felt like men, you always had to put up your dukes. That's the thought I had. I was always defending myself because they were constantly gaslighting me. 

And, I realized, oh, I know why men do that. They do that because at the end of the day, they feel inferior to women. Why would they feel inferior to women? Because they had a mother telling them what to do, so they will always be inferior to women because this is how they were raised. 

I know this is very like, you know, some people would think, "Oh, what is she saying?" But if you think about it, so they feel inferior and the way they make themselves feel superior is by putting you down. 

And I feel like a woman disparaging another woman, it's because she feels less than somehow. And if she tells another woman that, it's gonna make her feel a little bit better for that one second in time. That's kinda how I see it.

Helen: When you first let your hair go grey, obviously there weren't nearly as many women around who'd chosen to go grey as there are now. Do you get a different reaction now to what you got in the beginning?

Victoria: Not really. I think what's happening now is different than what happened then. My hair is very, very curly, and in person it's very like, " Whoa, look at all that curls, all that white hair." And so, women get very like, "Oh my gosh, I love that hair." Back then, I would sense women were kind of just looking sideways. So not being as verbal with their thoughts.

Helen: How do you feel with where you're at in the ageing process?

Victoria: Oh, fantastic. I feel so lucky. Oh my gosh. Just made a video actually for my menopause page about me, so people will understand how do I know so much about hormone therapy, and menopause, and the ageing process. And I, started when I was a kid, eight years old, just very interested in it.

And, over time, over the years, over the decades, just took care of myself. Not excessively, not perfection at all. You know, very bad habits at different points in my life. Like when I was in my 20s, I wasn't a drinker, but you go out in New York City, people are doing drugs. That's what we did. Was it heavy duty? No, but that's what it was. That was my life, because that's what everybody was doing. Did I eat sweets? A ton of sweets. Did I eat bad food? Yes, but overall, I took care of myself. 

And then as I started learning about what was gonna happen to me in perimenopause, I knew I did not wanna go through any of that. That just did not sound like a good idea to me. And I really was thinking a lot about the symptoms. 

And so, I picked up Suzanne Somers' book back in 2002. I have it right here. "The Sexy Years." It is outdated right now. Now, some of it is bad information, but that's what we had back then. And I started reading it and I just thought, "I gotta figure this out, 'cause I'm not gonna be going through all that," to me what sounded like hell on earth.

And so, I looked into it. And I got all set up. I knew what I was gonna do, when the time came. When I read her book, I wasn't ready. When the time came, I already had the doctor, so that first night sweat went right to the doctor, and got on all the hormones. I was still having a cycle. I was still menstruating, but I didn't go through any of the menopause, perimenopause stuff. 

And because I started so early, my health is that of someone in their 20s. Meaning my A1C, my glucose, my CRP, all of the homocysteine, all of those markers that are far more important than the way I look, are very, very solidly in the right healthy range. The cholesterol, the size of your particles, those are the things that are so important as people age. Liver function, kidney function. And I get a blood test every six months to keep up with it, as I have done since 2002. 

And so, because of all those steps that I just described, here I am 65. I am in the best health and shape, physical shape and health, healthy on the inside, of my entire life. And I know that I am very lucky to be able to say that because very, very few people get to this age, and can say that. And that's why I know I'm very, very lucky. 

And I just feel so lucky, I'm doing great, in my health. In other departments of my life, not so good.

Helen: Are you doing lots of exercise and eating healthily, and that sort of stuff as well?

Victoria: Yes, yes. That is the foundation to all the other things, is that consistency to those healthy habits. It's really very simple. It's nothing too complicated.

Helen: I'm just gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, "I'm thinking about going grey," what hints and tips would you have for them?

Victoria: I would say, first thing is, give yourself some time, and grace. The first thing is don't think you're gonna be able to know what's going on in two months. Give yourself six months. Then if you don't like it, dye it back. Grey is not for everyone. It is just a colour, but give yourself a chance. What's the worst that could happen? You don't like it you just dye it again. 

And I'll tell you what else. A lot of times women just are not sure. The whole time they let their hair go grey, it looks beautiful. But they still don't feel it deep inside of them. And they dye it again. And that's perfectly okay. Because sometimes, it's dyeing it again is the very thing that that woman needed, to know if this was the right thing for her.

And most women actually do let it go back to going grey because they realize, "Oh my gosh, that beautiful colour, I just covered it all up. I miss it. I want it." And then they're very steadfast. But really it takes that going through the process to learn what works for you. And if it's not right for you, no worries.

Grey is not for everybody. And if you feel better dyeing your hair, go for it. If you feel better with your silver, grey, white, keep it. And don't worry about a damn thing what anybody else says, 'cause, you know, everybody has an opinion. We know what that's like. We know what opinions are like.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been fascinating to chat to, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Victoria: Thank you so much. I've enjoyed it thoroughly.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.