Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week, I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Sally Wilson. She's been on her natural grey hair journey for the past five years and is passionate about helping women embrace their silver with confidence. She posts on Instagram with haircare tips, simple everyday hairstyles, and easy tutorials that make styling effortless.

Hello Sally. How are you?

Sally: Good, thanks. How are you?

Helen: I'm good. I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child?

Sally: Yeah, so my hair was dirty blonde in colour. And it was straight but had like a waviness to it. So, like when the heat came on, it would just frizz out. I was always trying to straighten it. 

Started dyeing it when I was 16 because it was dirty blonde, and I wanted it to be more blonde, so I got highlights in it for the first time. I was probably more like 15. My Mom took me. My Mom paid for it. I remember it, the whole thing. And I loved it because it was so much brighter and looked healthier. 

But, yeah, it was like healthy. I never really had long hair, maybe to my shoulders.

Helen: Can you remember finding your first white hair?

Sally: Oh, yes. I remember because I was 27, I just had my first baby, and I was like, "Is this what motherhood is all about? Like, I have a baby?" And it was literally like the next month a little grey hair popped out. 

I was in the bathroom, and I called my mom panicking. I'm like, "Mom, I have a grey hair." I was freaking out. And she's like, "It's totally fine. Don't pluck it though, because 10 more will come." And I'm like, "What? Is this a real thing?" I don't know if it's real or not, but I didn't touch it. I just left it. So yeah, I was 27 when I had my very first grey hair.

Helen: And were you dyeing it at the time?

Sally: Yeah, I would've been probably still just doing the highlights, 'cause once I started when I was, like, 15 doing highlights, I kinda did highlights and made my hair blondish the whole time after that. So yes, I would've had some type of highlight in it at the time. And then shortly after that is I started colouring it just one solid colour. But yes, I definitely did some dyes.

Helen: And was that to cover the grey when you did solid colour?

Sally: Yeah, and then because I had a daughter now, and I was a busy mom. And then, the highlights they were so much money, and took so much time, that I was like, "I'm just gonna go to the salon and get one solid colour, cover up my gr- and then try to match my roots." 

So, then I went darker for the first time ever. And then I didn't have to go as often, because I only had like one or two greys like sparkling through. So yes, I did.

Helen: How many years did you dye your hair for?

Sally: So, I started when I was a teenager, and I stopped when I was 44. Yeah. So, I can't do the math, but that's I did a lot, a long time, 20 years.

Helen: I think it's 30 years.

Sally: Yeah, it probably is. Oh my gosh, yeah. A very long time.

Helen: And what was the trigger for deciding to stop?

Sally: COVID happened. The Lockdown in 2020 happened. I didn't do it right at the beginning at all. It was the following year, so in 2021, I decided to stop. 

I was just, you know, at this point then, it wasn't really about COVID, it was I was so fed up of going to the salon every, I would do, like, six to eight weeks, 'cause I didn't have a lot of grey hair on the very top of my head. It was underneath more and at, like, you know, my hairline. So, I could push it to six to eight weeks.

And I did always go to the salon. I didn't do the box dye, just to try to keep my hair healthier. Don't know if that's a real thing. But I was so tired of sitting in the salon chair for hours getting my hair dyed, and it was no longer enjoyable. Before it used to be enjoyable. I'd be like, "Oh, good, I'm going to the salon." 

Then I was scheduling my whole entire life around my hair appointments. If I had, like, some event at work or anything going on the weekend, I had to schedule that around, "Oh, my hair needs to be dyed on this day. I better push it up." Every time I left the salon, another appointment to make sure I could get in on the exact time I wanted to get in at. 

I was tired of it. It was really tiring. And I just had enough, and I talked to my hairstylist, and I said, "I wanna do grey blending." She said, "Are you sure?" And I said, "Yeah." And she's like, "I don't know if you have enough grey." And I was like, "I'm gonna try it." She was like, "Okay, let's try it." 

Yeah, and we did, and it looked amazing, my grey blending. Looked so good. Everyone loved it, and she loved it, and she took pictures, and, like showed everybody, and yeah.

Helen: So, you basically went from highlights to the blended grey, basically one trip to the salon?

Sally: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. One trip. At the time I was doing solid colour, so it was more like my roots was just like a darker colour, and then I went there, and in one trip, it took a few hours, but in one trip, yep, I left there and I was grey blended. So, my highlights then were like a grey colour, like a bright grey.

And then I had to go back every, I don't even know what it was, but you had to go back every so often, and get toner put in your hair. To keep the greys at that grey colour, and not turn kind of brassy. 

Well, then that became no longer fun. I only did that twice, and I was like, my whole point of doing grey blending was like, "I don't wanna come here anymore to the salon. I only wanna come for a haircut." So, then I decided to just stop that. So, I only did that twice, and then I stopped that. And then I just went cold turkey, and I let it grow from there.

Helen: Okay. So how long was it when you did the grow out?

Sally: So, I did a two-year grow out. So, from... I did the grey blending, which I consider part of my grow out. 'cause once I did the grey blending, I never put more highlights in it. I just left it. I just did the toner on it. So then two years I let it just completely grow out.

And then just after the two-year mark, I cut it off. So it was just under my chin, and I did the big chop. I didn't love the haircut. It felt very short to me. And I straightened it like crazy to get it as long as possible. I was like, "Oh, my God. What have I done to my hair?" 

But I loved the fact that all of that old colour was gone, and I could actually now see what my greys were really gonna look like. So that part I loved about it. And then it was just a matter of, like, waiting it out a little for my hair to grow. So yeah, two years, and I did the big chop.

Helen: Which is very similar to me, 'cause I basically reached a point, my hair was bleach blonde, and I had the line. I didn't do grey blending, but I just reached a point of when I didn't want the yellow anymore.

Sally: Couldn't do it, yep. Yeah. 'Cause it goes a funny colour at the ends, right?  That old dye colour turns a weird colour, and it's not nice. 

I get so many women asking me that question on my Instagram too, like, "How did you do it? My hair's so bad at the ends." And then I send them pictures of me, and it's like, "No, this was me too." And they're like, "Oh my God, your hair looks exactly like mine right now." I'm like, "Yes, I was there too. Like, I get it. It's a real thing. It will get better."

Helen: How did you feel about it during the grow out?

Sally: I didn't really have much of an opinion about it. Everyone was really supportive. Probably helped that it was COVID. I was only on video cameras for work. 

Because I started it, my other co-worker started it too, and she did the grey blending, so we were kind of then in it together. If anyone thought anything, they never said anything to my face, that's for sure.

But yeah, I just, I was so done with the dyeing, and the appointments, and scheduling my life around the appointments, and sitting in the chair, and getting my hair dyed. And then I would even sit in the chair and get my hair dyed, but leave with wet hair, because that made it cheaper at the salon. So then, like everything about it was just so painful. Then I'd have to go home. 

I was just so ready. So, because I was so ready, it just felt good. And I tried to wear different hairstyles, like where I'd just put like half of my hair kind of up in a messy bun. I felt like that kind of hid some of that demarcation line

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Sally: as well for me. Yeah, I was just ready. It felt okay.

Helen: That was interesting there. So I was under the impression that if you had grey blending, you didn't really have a demarcation line. Is that not true?

Sally: No, it's not true. No. Because, well, for me, because then eventually all those grey highlights do have to grow out, so it just softened the demarcation line. It wasn't quite maybe as harsh. 

But then when I stopped doing the toner on it, then all that old colour on the end did change to that weird orangey colour, I'll call it. So there still was a line. It wasn't as harsh if I left it as my natural brown hair kinda growing out, and then with the greys coming in. I think it would've been a deeper line, like a heavier colour in transition. So, it softened it a bit.

Helen: Okay. Did you post on Instagram during the grow out phase, or did that come after?

Sally: No, it was after. Yeah, it was after. I started Instagram only two years ago, maybe a year and a half ago. My girlfriend told me, "You need to post, like, about your grey hair, and your journey and the way you style your hair." 

And I was like, "What?" I was like, "Nobody wants to see this." She's like, "Yes, they do. There's so many people in the grey hair transition, and they want the community, and they want the support." And I was like, "Okay, I don't know." 

And I had to think about it, 'cause I actually don't... I never posted really before, like, even about my just personal life. I just, I had an account, and I would just go on there shopping. Be like, "What can I buy on Instagram?" But I wasn't actually posting. 

So, I gave it a try. I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna make it public. I'm gonna start posting." And it took off, and people were wanting to know my journey, and people were asking me questions, and, "Does your hair look like this? Why does your hair look so good? Did it ever look like mine?" And I'm like, "Yes, it did. Absolutely it did.”

So yeah, I started doing hair tutorials, 'cause my girlfriend also told me about that. And I was like, "I don't think anyone wants this little silly messy bun that I do." And again, it totally took off. Like, I had a video that went viral, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I had no idea that people wanted to see this."

So, I was so happy, and joyed. And I've just continued it. Yeah, it's been a really good support system for me, and them, and I feel like I'm helping people. It's been really nice.

Helen: So, have you come to really enjoy it then?

Sally: Yes, I have actually. Yeah, I do have to give myself breaks on it. It can be a lot, 'cause you can get stuck in and be like, "Oh, I need to post again, and what do people wanna see?" So, I definitely need to... And I have a full-time job. This posting is not my job. But I do enjoy it. 

There's always a moment where I'm like, "Oh, should I do this?" And then I get that one message from somebody that's like, "Your hair is amazing. I'm in my grey hair journey. How did you do this?" And she'll ask me a question. Or she's like, "I really enjoy your hair tutorials. Thank you so much for posting." 

And I'm like, "Okay, like someone actually is watching," and that kinda just keeps you going, right? Those nice messages just kinda always keep you going and you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna keep it going." So yeah, it's good.

Helen: Your hair is quite long, isn't it?

Sally: It is long. It's the longest it's ever been in the longest time of my whole life, yes. 

Helen: Same as me. 'Cause my hair was much shorter when I used to dye it because it wasn't in very good condition.

Sally: Yes, absolutely. Yep, I totally agree with you.

Helen: Yeah, it used to get very dry on the ends, and brittle, whereas now it doesn't do that

Sally: Yeah. And I had no idea that my hair was doing that when I was dyeing it. I just thought that was my hair, that's the quality of it. Like, I didn't realize it was the dyeing of it as well. So yeah, it's interesting.

I do find the condition is a lot better. Feels healthier too. I've changed some of my products to, like, a natural-based company that I use. And I really like them as well. They kind of focus on scalp health, so I've kinda got into that. So yeah, just in general my hair is a lot healthier.

Basically, because not dyeing it. and the products that I'm using. It feels so good, and healthy for the first time in my life, yeah.

Helen: Do you use purple shampoos?

Sally: I do, but it's maintenance more. So, I use, a clarifying shampoo to keep it bright. And it's a gentle clarifying shampoo, so I use that as my everyday go-to. I wash my hair, like, twice a week. 

And then as maintenance, I use a purple shampoo. I have a purple hydrating mask. but I maybe use them once every two months. And maybe not that I have to, I kind of have them, and I like them. And I find when I do use it that it's a little brighter. Like, it does do something, but once every two months maybe.

Helen: You said people were supportive. What reaction did you get when you told your friends and family that you were gonna go grey?

Sally: Yeah, so I don't ever remember. Well, my husband's always very supportive. He's like, "Yeah, you do you." My kids never thought anything of it. 

But my Mom was also silver, and she's white. She has white, white hair, and people think she bleaches it. So, it wasn't a thing for our family. Like, my Mom has been white since the '90s, so like that's when people weren't white, in the '90s.

So, it just was normal really for us. No one really said anything. They were just like, "Oh, okay, perfect." Like, "Oh, it looks good. Your grey blending looks good." And yeah, it wasn't... No, no problems. 

I get probably more meaner comments on Facebook than I ever did in my personal life. And not Instagram, only Facebook.

Helen: Interesting. And is that around being too young to go grey?

Sally: Yeah, sometimes, or why do you wanna look older than you really are? Oh, you look so old with your grey hair. You're, like, 45. And I'm just like, "Oh, joke's on you. I am 49." I was like, "Yeah, it's just strangers, right?" Yes. Not understanding.

Helen: Is that many of the comments that you get, or are most of them supportive?

Sally: No, most of them are definitely supportive. You always have a few haters for sure. But I mean 98% of them are supportive for sure. 

I do have a lot of friends on Instagram, and they have a lot more hate than I do for whatever reason. Or maybe they're posting about it. But I don't get a lot of hate. No, definitely not.

Helen: Which is good. And

Sally: I know.

Helen: Quite a lot of people say they get compliments from strangers when they choose to go grey. Are you finding that?

Sally: No, I don't get as many. I get looks, and then I kinda get double-takes. And I think people think that... My hair's very salt and pepper, and very even in colour, so it almost looks like I've dyed it like this, right? So, I get that question more. 

If someone does stop me, they'll be like, "Is your hair real? Like, did you dye it like that, or is that your actual colour?" That's usually the question I get in real life, and on Instagram as well. And I was like, "No, this is actually, like, my real colour." 

And they're like, "Oh, but, like, people pay hundreds of dollars for this salt and pepper look." I'm like, "I know. Don't ask. I just got super lucky." So yeah. So, I feel like I get double looks instead, 'cause it's not fully solid grey. It's very salt and pepper.

Helen: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Sally: So, people are unsure. Like, what is this hair? Is it hers? Is it not hers? And then I feel like they feel like they can't ask me.

Helen: I think mine's quite similar to yours. It's very stripy. The front's very white, and underneath is white, but the rest of it isn't.

Sally: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have sections too. Yeah, so.

Helen: Yeah. Have you found the colours that you wear have changed since you chose to go grey?

Sally: So, I wear a lot of black. I always have. Darker colours

And not because of maybe my grey hair, but maybe just because of social media. I did do the colour analysis where it's like, "What colour should I wear?". I actually did that on Chat. I did a little picture of myself, put it on Chat, and asked him or her, "What colour should I wear?"

It told me to wear muted pastel colours. Which I was shocked. I was like, "I would never wear a muted pink, muted green, and blues." And I was like, "Mm, Chat, come on. I don't know about this. That doesn't sound... Like, what happened to black?" 

So, I did. I went over to a local store of mine, and I went right past the black, and went to all the muted pastel-y colours. And I got myself some shirts, a blue, a pink, and a green. And I absolutely love them. I wear them. I do actually think they do look good on me, which I never would have picked if it wasn't for Chat GPT.

Helen: So, you were quite surprised? 

Sally: I was so surprised that I liked it. And I actually showed my family, and they're like, "Whoa. Why are you wearing colour?" And I was like, "I don't know." But they're like, "It looks so good on you."

But yeah, and then I've had compliments from my friends, like, "That looks really good on you." I'm like, "I know. Chat told me to wear it." So yeah, I do. I, now I do wear more colour than I ever have, for sure

Helen: And how about make-up?

Sally: Yeah, my make-up has just probably softened, and that's probably just, it's pretty simple. I did find something, again I'm an Instagram shopper. I love Instagram. Someone on Instagram, it was called Saint, and they colour match you. And it's like a real person. It's a lady. And I sent her my picture, and then she does it's sort of like a cream makeup. 

And they actually, like, so, like maybe, like, around your cheekbones is a different colour than, like, your forehead 'cause, like, you know, we have all different kinds of colours on our face. And I absolutely love this make-up. So, I use that. And it's very soft, and I would say natural looking, not really heavy.

Instead of, like, blue eyeshadow, back in the day, in the '90s. Wasn't it blue eyeshadow? I do remember wearing some blue eyeshadow. I do not do that anymore. It's very subtle, just some blush, and mascara, and we're off. We're on the way.

Helen: See, then you're making me remember smuggling the sparkly blue eyeshadow to school to put on.

Sally: Right? Yeah. It was a thing. Like, no, none of that's happening anymore.

Helen: Glad to hear it. 

Sally: Yeah.

Helen: How are you feeling about where you're at in the ageing process?

Sally: Yeah, I'm quite happy. I feel good. I feel healthy. I'm turning 50 this year. I'm on, like, a health fitness, so I have a guy that's local to me, and he has an App. So, everything is on this App, that I need. 

So, he gives me all my food options, all my workouts it’s on there. I do my weigh-ins, and my measurements. And I go to the gym three times a week. And I'm trying to lift. And I'm just feeling really strong, and healthy, and fit, more than I ever have before.

When I turned 40, I had this goal of I was gonna be super fit. That did not happen. I got frozen shoulder when I turned 40. I woke up one morning, and was like, "Why is my arm not moving?" And I ended up I had frozen shoulder, and it took me almost two years to fully recover from that. 

So now that I'm 50, I'm like, "Okay, this is it. This is the time. I'm gonna be..." But I just feel really good. I'm enjoying my Instagram with, like, the community, and just, like, the support that I'm getting there too is kinda nice. I like doing my hair. I'm feeling good about myself. Yeah. I'm feeling healthy. I'm eating healthy. Feels good. 

My girls, I have two girls. They're 20, so they're, like, you know, doing their thing. And we hang out together, and we do day trips. And it's just a good part of your life. I'm no longer changing diapers. I'm happy with getting old, my kids being older, and it's just like I can travel, or I can go away for the day. And I don't have to worry about, "What are my kids doing?" It's just a good point. I like this. I like this age. Yeah.

Helen: So, if someone came to you and said, "I'm thinking about going grey," would you have any hints, or tips for them?

Sally: I think you know. Like this is a silly comment, but it's like you know when you know, right? 'cause it's like if you're thinking about it, and you're on the fence, and you're just unsure, maybe give yourself like another few weeks, another few months. I feel like if you are in the middle of dyeing your hair still, and you dye it, and in the middle of dyeing it you're like, "What am I actually doing?" That's when it came to me. I was sitting at the salon, and I'm like, "What am I doing? Like, why? This is no longer bringing me joy." If it doesn't bring you joy, toss it aside. And that's what happened for me. 

And also, you can give it a shot, and you can always dye your hair again, really. Like, it's not the end of the world if you go back and dye your hair. I've seen so many people say, "Oh, I was there. I did it for a year and I couldn't do it. I had to dye my hair." It's all good. You can do that, too. 

There's no rules, right? There's no rules. You gotta do what's right for you. And the timing has to be right in your life, and so, yeah

Helen: Would you say grey blending's a good way to do it?

Sally: For me, yes. I needed grey blending. I couldn't have gone cold turkey. I definitely needed… It just felt a little easier for me. I did the grey highlights. I thought it looked amazing. Everyone actually thought it looked so good. 

And then from there, it just slowly kind of grew out. It wasn't such a harsh line for me. So that demarcation line didn't feel quite as harsh. So, for me, grey blending is absolutely the way.

Helen: And a Pixie wouldn't have worked for you either?

Sally: No, and I, 100%, I definitely couldn't have done a Pixie. My Mom did the Pixie, back in the '90s, 'cause she had a horrible dye job out of a box, and it went orange, I think. So, she had to do the Pixie cut. That's how she ended up doing it. 

No, I can't do a Pixie. There's no way. So, when I cut my hair to my chin, that was the limit for me. Like, the chin was the limit. Couldn't go any shorter. Even that was hard, the chin. 

But I was ready at that time, too. Like, when I went to the salon, I'm like, "Okay, chop it off." Like, "Let's do this. It's only hair. It will grow back." I say it's only hair, but I still wouldn't do a Pixie. But so, so maybe it's not only just hair, but I knew it would grow, right? And I was like, "I can handle the chin." So yeah.

Helen: Yeah, I think it's really interesting that people just have to pick the way that's right for them.

Sally: Mm-hmm. Absolutely, right? Whatever works for you. We're all so different. Mm-hmm.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. It's been fascinating chatting to you.

Sally: Thank you. You too.

Helen: Enjoy the rest of your day.

Sally: Thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram @happier.grey. Have a great week.