Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or are just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Sarah Faulkner. She's a wife, mum of three grown-up children, and the owner of Evie Loves Interiors. She's an interior designer and curtain maker running a small, but busy business from her home studio in Lichfield. 

Hello, Sarah. How are you?

Sarah: Hello. I'm okay, thank you. How are you?

Helen: I'm good. I've been to the gym this morning, 

Sarah: Oh, that’s good.

Helen: so gonna be achy tomorrow.

I am gonna start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first white hair?

Sarah: Gosh, yeah, in my sort of mid-40s possibly, maybe a little bit earlier than that. But I've always been really blonde, so it was quite hard to distinguish which was grey, and which was blonde. I wasn't devastated by it at that point. 

But it was more my hairdresser I think, pointed it out to me, 'cause she just kept saying that I've got a nice grey, 

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: if you like. I used to have it coloured, so.

Helen: Yeah, I was gonna ask you that. So what colour was your hair when you were a child?

Sarah: It was white. Very, very white. Yeah, very, very blonde indeed. Then that stayed the same really up until my late teens, I would say, when it started to go a bit darker. 

And then when I had my third child, it went really dark, and started falling out. So, I had it all cut off, and had it really blonde. I had it so it went platinum blonde really.

Helen: Was that the first time you dyed it?

Sarah: Yeah, they were only highlights, but it was the first time I went that light. I'd always been very sort of natural with it, but I did struggle with it going darker, just because I kind of identified myself as having blonde, very blonde hair. 

And no eyebrows, you know, the real sort of... And if I haven't got mascara on, I haven't got any eyelashes. You can't see them 'cause they're fair, you know. My Mum calls me an English rose, but my sister says I'm alabaster, so you take which one. 

Helen: Once you started dyeing your hair, 

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: did you keep dyeing it?

Sarah: Yeah, and because it was really short, I had to go sort of every eight weeks, to have it really dyed. It was my hairdresser that kept saying you could go without dyeing it. But it took quite a while for me to do that. There was a reason why I went fully grey in the end.

Helen: What was the trigger for going fully grey?

Sarah: So, when I went on holiday to Greece with my husband a few years ago, for some reason I went really brown, and I don't normally. I normally don't tan at all. But I did tan, so I went really brown, and my hair went really white. And I looked ridiculous. I looked like a photo negative. So, I hated it.

I thought, you know, from the back I look 15, and then I turn round, and I'm this sort of late 40s, early 50s woman, you know? It looked ridiculous. So, I thought, "No, I can't have this brassy blonde anymore. I want to go more natural."

Helen: And when was that?

Sarah: That was in 2023. Yeah, yeah, '23. So, I've had it like this for a good three years.

Helen: Did you just stop dyeing it at that point?

Sarah: Yeah. I just let it grow out. Yeah. I did find it quite hard to do. I did at the time. I did find it quite difficult, yeah.

Helen: I can understand that, 'cause I think you're so conditioned that roots are a bad thing, 

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: that when you see your reflection, you're just like, "Oh my God, I just look a mess."

Sarah: Yeah, and sort of being darker. The darker colour I struggled with. Even though it was much better, 'cause it was much softer. It's hard for me to accept that sometimes. 

I seem to have this real dark bit at the front that I'm not massively keen on, but, you know, I'm accepting it. I am accepting it now, yeah.

Helen: Obviously the opposite to you, 'cause mine's white at the front, and underneath, but the rest of it's still quite dark.

Sarah: Yeah, that seems to be what happens. But I mean, it is white. Yeah, it's just this streak at the front. But anyway, anyway.

Helen: That's pretty white to me.

Sarah: Yeah. The summer's good, 'cause the summer does seem to lighten it up a bit. Yeah.

Helen: So, was your hair short when you were growing it out?

Sarah: No, it was long. So, I'm trying to think. No, it was long. I started growing it again. It was short for a long, long time, and then I started growing it again in 2014. So, it was quite long when I started growing it out. Yeah.

Helen: Did you keep the length through the grow out?

Sarah: Yeah, pretty much. But I like to change it up anyway, so I'll have long hair, and then I'll get it chopped off, and then I'll grow it again. ‘cause I get really bored. 

But yeah, I didn't have it short, short. I have thought about doing that again, but not yet.

Helen: How long did the grow out take you?

Sarah: All in all, I'd say about two years possibly, something like that. Yeah, I don't know if that's the normal?

Helen: It depends how people do it. And how long their hair is. Some people decide that they want it over with, and have a Pixie Cut.

Sarah: Right.

Helen: Then obviously, it's over quite quickly. I'm speaking to more and more people who've done grey blending.

Sarah: Oh, right.

Helen: So, they kind of go to the hairdressers, have the one-off dye, so they already look like the colour that they're going to be.

Sarah: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Helen: That's definitely more common than it used to be.

And then I've also spoken to people who have waist-length hair, dyed really dark, and are just letting the line grow out.

Sarah: Really?

Helen: Which is going to take four or five years, yeah.

Sarah: Gosh. Well, 'cause it's the texture as well changes, doesn't it? It's not just the colour. The texture's different as well.

Helen: I do think it varies. I think people think it's gonna be very, very wiry. And I don't think it often is. 

But also, I think for me, I also had my hair bleached blonde, which wasn't good for the condition of it, so it was very dry, and it used to be very brittle at the ends. So, even though maybe the texture is a little bit different, it feels softer now, because it's not got the drying out effect of the dye.

Sarah: Oh, that's good. Yeah. So how long have you been grey?

Helen: Oh, I grew mine out in Lockdown, 

Sarah: Oh, did you?

Helen: like many people. I'd been thinking about it for a couple of years before then. 

Sarah: Right.

Helen: But my hairdresser was very keen to put me off the idea. So, I didn't actually do it until then. 

But I used to work with a woman who had absolutely white hair, which I thought was beautiful. 

Sarah: Yeah, it is.

Helen: And I was kind of like, if I had hair like her, 

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: that's what I would do.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah

Helen: So, I started in 2020.

Sarah: I wonder if people recognize me now. You know, I sometimes think you know, that person that you used to know. 'Cause I feel personally, like older. I don't know if it's 'cause I'm going through the menopause as well.

I'm 53, so I'm going through a lot of changes at the moment. And this is just another one that I'm accepting. You know, that I am 53, and I don't have any work done, or anything like that. I won't. 

And this is all part of that trying to embrace the natural ageing processe and being good with it, being okay with it. 

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: ‘cause it’s something women have to deal with. We seem to have it tougher than men, for sure.

Helen: We have to deal with it however we feel comfortable. So, I was gonna ask you, how's the condition of your hair now compared to how it was before?

Sarah: Yeah, it's good. It is. It's very good actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's very soft, and yeah, I wouldn't say it's massively different. No, I think it's just about the same. It's probably going slightly thinner, but that's another thing.

Helen: Your hair is quite pale. 

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: Are you using any special shampoos, and conditioners to look after it?

Sarah: I do use a lightening one. Oh, J-O-I-C-O I use. But I mix that with the one for over 50s. It's the green one, I can't remember what it's called now. That's to give it body, as well. Yeah. But it's always been sort of very light. I've always been a very light

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: colour, light tone, yeah.

Helen: You don't use like a purple shampoo, or anything?

Sarah: No, I don't use purple, no. I did when it was coloured, but I don't use purple at all. No.

Helen: It's very polarizing. Some people do, some people don't.

Sarah: Really? Well,  I always thought that that was to stop yellowing.

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: when you coloured. Yeah.

Helen: People who have very white blonde, or very white grey hair tend to have problems with yellowing in the summer, 

Sarah: Oh right.

Helen: or with hairdryers, and things. 

Sarah: Oh right.

Helen: So, then some of them do use the purple products.

Sarah: Right, okay. I'd be worried that it'd turn it purple. Knowing my luck, it would.

Helen: People have said moderation is the way to go.

Sarah: Oh, okay. Yeah, I tend to mix. I mix them so I'm not using too much of one, you know, 'cause I feel it can strip my hair of the oils if I use too much. Yeah.

Helen: How did people react when you told them you were going to go grey?

Sarah: I didn't tell people. I just sort of let it happen. And there hasn't been any sort of reaction. 

I think my children like it. They say that they like it. They like the colour, and they like that I'm going the natural route, I think. That they're sort of pleased that I'm not doing any of that. 

I think I'm the only one out of all of my peers who has gone grey. 

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: Out of all of my friends, I am the only one that has let it go grey. But I was the only one that... No, no, that's not true. No. I was going to say I'm the only one that was blonde, but of course I'm not. No, not at all. I'm thinking my sister, and my friends from up North where I'm from, I'm the only sort of blonde one.

My sister's very dark. Really, really dark. So, she hasn't bitten the bullet yet, and done it. But she looks great. She can get away with it still.

Helen: Have the colours that you wear changed at all since you chose to go grey?

Sarah: No, not really. I think because it's not such a massive change from what it was before. 

I suppose my make-up maybe slightly, because I actually feel like I'm a bit darker than I was. Rather than going from dark to light, I've gone from light to darker. The colours haven't changed hugely, but I wear less make-up, yeah. 

Not judging by today 'cause I've been out. I'm fully made up today. But no, generally I don't wear as much. Don't know why. Yeah, that must just be a natural thing that's gone.

Helen: It’s what you're comfortable with.

Sarah: Yeah. Uh, it's, it's, again, it's interesting 'cause I

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: have spoken to some people who've adopted red lipstick as a signature look since they have the grey hair. 

Sarah: Yes.

Helen:  And then I've spoken to others who said, "I just don't wear make-up at all.”

Sarah: Yeah. No, no, I definitely, definitely don't wear as much. Maybe mascara, and just so I've got some eyebrows, 'cause otherwise I haven't got any. I don't know if that's because I've gone darker. I'd not really thought about it actually. Yeah, you're making me think about these things that I've not thought about. Yeah.

Helen: Are you doing anything to age well?

Sarah: Yeah, I still run. So, I've always been a runner. I found it very difficult with menopause. So, I'm doing the whole HRT thing at the moment. But I do still go out running. And even if I can't go for a run, I take the dog for a walk every day, and I sort of incorporate a little run into that. So, I'm always been very sort of fitness orientated. 

Nutrition-wise, I'm not great, if I'm honest. I'm not brilliant at that at all. I never have been, 'cause I'm not interested in food. 

Beauty products-wise, I have invested probably a bit more in that of late, for the wrinkles. Skin creams, and serums, I can't afford to, you know, go top end, but I have definitely bought more, to try and find something, that can help with that. 

Hair products-wise, I feel like my hair's thinner, so I've bought products to thicken your hair. And I do use the lightening one to keep it as bright as I can.

Helen: Yeah, I think thinning is one of the things a lot of people talk about in relation to menopause.

Sarah: Yeah, it is a worry because I don't know if it's because I'm a Leo that... And I'm not into star signs, but my friend said this once, and it stayed with me. It's your mane, isn't it? Your hair is your mane, and I've sort of always hidden behind it.

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: So, I do feel like it's going thin, and of course, you don't want that, do you? You don't want that. I know it sounds vain, but I suppose it is vain. But that's another thing that I'd need to deal with and come to terms with, I guess.

Helen: Would you say that your hair has always been fairly central to your image?

Sarah: Yeah, very much so. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like I say, I've always hidden behind it, because I was very blonde. Yeah, I was very blonde when I was younger. 

Yeah, and I think that's all part of the ageing process, isn't it? And the menopause, you feel like you're losing your sense of self. So, with that, this is all part of accepting that. This is the new me sort of thing. 

I really like the colour of my hair. I really do really like the colour of my hair. I, didn't at first. It has taken a while, but I really, really like it now. Yeah. I'm proud of, you know, being grey. Yeah.

Helen: So, were you tempted to colour it again?

Sarah: No, I wasn't. Because I looked so ridiculous. I thought, "Oh gosh, I can't walk around looking like that." I looked ridic- honestly, I looked... Yeah, no, I didn't want to. And I thought, "No, this is it," you know? I am this age now, and that's how I am now. Yeah, no, I didn't. Yeah.

Helen: So, you kind of grew into being comfortable with it?

Sarah: Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say that I was comfortable straight away. I don't think anybody, if they're honest, would be comfortable immediately. Maybe some are. I don't know. Maybe you talk to people that are, but no, it took me a while. Yeah.

Helen: I think a lot depends on the grow out, and how people feel about that. 'Cause for me, I had quite a hard line with the bleach blonde, and 

Sarah: Right.

Helen: I just wanted it gone, in the end. So, I was very comfortable with it. I felt like I looked a lot less of a mess once I didn't have a line.

Sarah: Right, I see. Yeah. Yeah, as you're growing it out, you could really see.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: And I think a lot does depend on how comfortable you were through the grow out. If it didn't really bother you through the grow out, maybe it takes a little bit longer to get used to. Whereas if it was like me, really annoying you, it was just a relief for it to be gone.

Sarah: Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice to save the money, that's good. 

I didn't really have that growing it out. It was quite easy to grow it out. Just put it back a lot. 

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, so I did get away with it quite a bit. And underneath, it's sort of whiter underneath, so if I put that back. I do really like it. I do like the colour, yeah. When I see it on photos now, I think, "Oh, yeah, yeah. I do quite like that. Yeah, yeah. It's quite nice." Yeah.

Helen: Is it the colour you had expected it to be?

Sarah: I think it's probably a bit darker than I expected it to be. I think, because my hairdresser was always telling me it was so light. I thought, "Well, it's not that light. It's not." And because I was so blonde, I was thinking it was going to be lighter. 

So, it is darker than I thought it would be. I thought I'd be one of those really white greys, you know? I thought I'd be that and I'm not.

Helen: It looks pretty white to me. It's a lot whiter than mine.

Sarah: Well, I think in certain lights, it does. In others it, it doesn't. But yeah, I think because I was so blonde.

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: You just can't be that blonde, I don't think, at my age and have long hair. I just don't think it looks good. For me personally, I don't think it looks that good. Yeah.

Helen: Well, I think grey hair looks better, 

Sarah: Yeah.

Helen: but I'm biased. 'cause I think that your complexion changes as well as your hair. 

Sarah: Yes, it does.

Helen: So, the contrast becomes more and more significant as you get older, and the believability of the colour becomes…

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I think that's what it was. That's what I mean. So, from behind, like I say, you know, if you saw my hair from behind, you'd think that I was some young sort of... Not that I'm old. I'm not, you know, I keep saying I'm this age. I'm not old, but I'm also not 21. 

And then I'd sort of turn round, and I'd have this 53-year-old face, and it just, it looks bad. It just doesn't look good, in my opinion. Yeah. So that's why I wanted it to be more, in line 

Helen: Yeah.

Sarah: with the rest of me. Yeah.

Helen: I wanna ask you one last question. 

Sarah: Okay.

Helen: If someone came to you and said, "I'm thinking about going grey," what hints and tips would you have for them?

Sarah: Oh gosh, that's a hard one. I think I had it really easy with that. Like I say, 'cause it wasn't that massive a transition.

Yeah, stick through it. Get through it. I'm remembering back to when I actually grew my hair out from it being short, and that being an absolute nightmare. You just have to get through it. And before you know it, it will be grown out. I know it feels like you're never gonna get to the end of it, and it's gonna be like this forever. But it's not. It actually will grow out pretty quickly. 

Maybe get it cut shorter if you're that worried about it. Get it cut in a Bob, or whatever. And it won't last forever. This moment won't last forever. So, it will grow out soon enough. Yeah. 

You do feel liberated by it. Definitely feel liberated by it, for sure.

Helen: Yeah. Apart from anything else, one of the things that a lot of people talk to me about is having to previously plan their diary for hair appointments, around events, and things that were happening in their life.

Sarah: That's right. And my hair appointments, I'd be there for sort of six hours. And I just don't have that time anymore to do that. Yeah, 'cause it was so long, and it was so much to do. So that is great, having that time back. It's precious. Yeah, so that was great. 

But yeah, just stick with it, and you will get to where you wanna be. Definitely. And go for it. It is very liberating. Yeah.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. 

Sarah: Thank you.

Helen: You've been a fascinating guest, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Sarah: Oh, and you, Helen. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.