Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week, I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Victoria Wright, she's on a mission to redefine women's healthcare. She provides evidence-based, natural healthcare for every stage of a woman's hormone health, from stress management, period pain, and fertility issues, to menopause and post-cancer care. 

Hello, Victoria. How are you?

Victoria: I'm good, thank you, Helen. Thank you for having me on.

Helen: I am gonna start by asking you what your hair was like when you were a child/

Victoria: When I was a child, I was blonde. So, to look at me now, I am partially grey, and very dark-haired, but when I was a baby, and when I was a little child, I was white blonde. Would you believe it?

Helen: And did you have long hair or short hair when you were small?

Victoria: It varied in length. So, I was a child of the '70s, so I invariably had one of the bowl cuts at some point. But then as I was growing up, I had long hair, really, really long hair, and it was really straight, and all I wanted was curly hair like my best friend.

Helen: I kind of had the opposite to you. So, I had quite long hair until I was five, and then I used to have nightmares about there being spiders in the bed, and it was my hair. So, my Mum was like, "That's it." So that was the point at which I had the Purdy, or the pudding roll cut, as we all know it.

Victoria: Yeah

Helen: Did you, in your teens keep your hair long?

Victoria: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was only when I was in my 20s at some point that I actually had it cut short. And when I say short, I mean shoulder length. And then again, it was sort of between shoulder length and long, for years. 

And then I somehow decided in my head that before I turned 40, I would have it all cut off. So I had it all bobbed when I turned 40, and that was the first time I'd had it short again since that pudding bowl haircut.

Helen: Which flattered nobody, 

Victoria: No.

Helen: for anyone too young to remember it. Did you dye your hair at all when you were in your teens?

Victoria: I did, yeah. Yeah. So, like I said, I was white blonde, and as I got into my teens it started going darker. So, I did dye it for quite a while. When I say a while, I mean like three or four years, with highlights to keep it that blonde. 

And then I had a period, later on, where I hennaed my hair. Which was fun, and made the bathroom very red.

Helen: So, was your hair still quite pale at that point?

Victoria: Reasonably, yeah. Yeah. It's really just the last, I don't know, 10 years that it's gone really dark.

Helen: So, you presumably were quite orange with the henna then?

Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun.

Helen: Can you remember when you found your first white hair?

Victoria: Oh, I probably was about 40, I think. I don't really remember. But I've got a little like forest of grey at the front of my hair. I really like it.

Helen: You've got kind of like streaks at the front, haven't you?

Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

Helen: Yeah. I've got similar, but mine are a little bit more advanced than yours. But still very stripey at the back. You don't really remember finding that first white hair, so it can't have bothered you very much?

Victoria: No, I don't think so. I mean, I think probably at the time I kind of went, "Ooh, I've got grey hair." But to be honest with you, it's never really bothered me. 

I stopped dyeing my hair probably about 15 or so years ago. And I always knew that I'd just go naturally how it went, how it would go. The only exception is when it goes fully grey, I'm absolutely gonna put pink and purple stripes in it.

Helen: Which came first then, stopping dyeing your hair or those first white hairs?

Victoria: Stopping dyeing my hair, actually. I think there's so many different chemicals and stuff in hair dye, and because I kind of focus on health, I try and keep things as natural as possible. 

So, when I started learning about how, you know, the things that we put on our skin, the things that we put in our bodies, really affect our hormone health, that was the point. It was like, actually, I don't really need to dye my hair anymore.

Helen: Okay. So, at that point, did you do like a grow out with a line?

Victoria: I probably did. I don't really remember. It was only ever highlights I've never had fully dyed. It's only ever been, like, streaky highlights. 

My hair varies in colour, and it changes with the sun, and it does what it likes. So, I don't think it really, like, was such a big grow-out thing. 

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: It was more it just did what it liked.

Helen: So, I haven't actually asked you, is it a rude question? How old are you now? So how long have you had for your white hair to progress?

Victoria: I am about to approach my 50th year.

Helen: Okay.

Victoria: And I have had grey hair for probably at least six or seven years. Yeah. I reckon my Mum getting sick was the start of my grey hair.

Helen: Okay.

Victoria: Yeah.

Helen: And what sort of reaction do you get from other people?

Victoria: I haven't noticed any reaction at all, to be honest.

Helen: Which is a good thing, 'cause I think most people anticipate that they will get judged if they let their hair go grey.

Victoria: Yeah, yeah. No, I haven't noticed. I mean, nothing to my face anyway.

Helen: And how long is your hair now?

Victoria: At the moment it's about shoulder length. It was short bobbed, but I haven't actually been able to get to see my lovely hairdresser, 'cause she's so busy. So it's just grown. You can say, I mean, we're talking about hair, but I am the laziest hair person in the world, you know. 

I remember walking through, Birmingham Station, New Street Station, and there was a lady saying like, "What sort of haircare do you use?" She was selling all sorts of gadgets and stuff. I'm like, "Well, a hairbrush." She just kind of took one look at me and was like, "Nah, I'm not even gonna bother talking to you."

Helen: The other thing that, , again, is a bit of a misconception, I guess is, is the texture of your white hair very different to the texture of the rest of your hair?

Victoria: I'd say it's softer actually. It's very soft. But I wouldn't say I've noticed it any different, in terms of like, you know, it's not like wiry, or anything like that. It's just very soft. But I don't know if that's just 'cause it's the hair at my front of my head, and it's just naturally a bit softer there anyway.

Yeah, soft at the back too. I've never really noticed, there we go. Although you can't see it, like I'm actually sat there feeling my head going, "Is it any different?" That shows you how much I've noticed any differences in my hair.

Helen: The reason I'm asking you is 'cause again, it's one of those things where people talk about it being kind of thick, and wiry, and curly, and difficult to manage. And again, that's not something that I've seen. Some of my guests have said it is a little bit thicker, but a lot of them have said no, it's just the same.

Victoria: Not noticed any difference at all. It's just, yeah, it's just hair.

Helen: And do you just use a normal shampoo and conditioner on it?

Victoria: Well, I've changed my shampoo and conditioner, 'cause I found this lovely one that makes my hair go curly. Harking back to those days of dreaming of the curly hair. My hair is actually quite wavy. So I found this lovely shampoo and conditioner that makes my hair go a bit more wavy.

But I haven't changed it because of going grey. I've changed it because I want the wavy hair.

Helen: Okay. And I'm assuming that's kind of a natural product again. Do you want to tell us what it is?

Victoria: It's called Merwave. There we go, big plug for Merwave. 

Helen:  I have heard of that, yeah.

Victoria: Yeah, it's really cool, actually. I like it. And it means it, you know, I talk about like being lazy with my hair. It's like I don't even have to brush it anymore. I literally just like scrunch it, and it goes all wavy. It's really cool.

Helen: How often do you wash it?

Victoria: Probably once every week or 10 days, depending on how dirty it gets. So, at the moment, probably a bit more frequently, 'cause it's a bit hot and sweaty. But, yeah, I try and not wash it frequently at all.

Helen: And do you find that it's in good condition?

Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. absolutely.

Helen: There are a couple of hair changes that are talked about around menopause and perimenopause, one of which is thinning. Have you seen any of that?

Victoria: For me personally, no. But, just to kind of talk about that thinning, because it's not a symptom of perimenopause, and I think that's a real misconception. Hair thinning can be related to insulin resistance, and it can be related to thyroid health, but it may not even be to do with your thyroid. That may actually be due to oestrogen dominance, which can happen during perimenopause. 

So, if you do notice that your hair gets a bit thinner, then it's actually one to investigate, because it's not age, and it's not necessarily just perimenopause. Because I'm aware of these things, I look out for it. And if I notice I start to get more hair coming out, then I look at like my nutrition status, make sure I'm getting enough nutrients, in order to make sure I've got nice thick hair.

Helen: Okay. See, I can never decide whether mine is or it isn't, 'cause, it's quite long. So there all looks to be quite a lot in the

Victoria: Mm-hmm.

Helen: hairbrush. But that's just because the actual individual hairs are long.

Victoria: Yes. Yeah. And also, we kind of forget that we're animals, right? And we moult. 

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: So, in hot weather like this, our hair will come out a lot more because we don't need it, for insulation. Whereas in the winter, our hair will be naturally thicker because it will grow. Although it doesn't grow as quickly in the winter, we don't lose as much in the winter.

Helen: Has anyone ever encouraged you to dye your hair to cover the greys?

Victoria: No. No, I'm quite lucky. The people around me are all pro-grey, so.

Helen: So, are they grey as well?

Victoria: Yeah, so I've got quite a few friends who are grey. Yeah, and I know a lot of grey baldy blokes. We're all pro-grey.

Helen: Have the colours that you wear changed at all since you chose to go grey?

Victoria: No. Skin's not changed, so.

Helen: And I'm guessing you don't wear a lot of make-up?

Victoria: No, I don't. These days I occasionally wear make-up, but not a huge amount. So yeah, I don't really..., I am really lazy in that regard. 

Helen: Are you doing anything to age healthily?

Victoria: Absolutely. The first thing I've done actually is get a genetic nu- a nutrigenomics report. And the kind of report that I got told me about health risks long term, and what nutrients I needed in order to be able to support them. 

I've also had some functional testing done, so looking at vitamin and mineral status. Looking at oestrogen, metabolism, cortisol levels, various other bits like that, 'cause I know based on my nutrigenomics report where my risks are, so what to look at based on that.

And now as a standard, because of those two things, and family history, I'm taking a whole bunch of different vitamins. Very targeted, not just a general multi-vitamin. But targeted vitamins and minerals, so that I can make sure that I've got good overall health. 

I lift weights, which is absolutely brilliant for women as we get older. Highly recommend lifting some weights. And generally, I just eat really well. So, lots of fruit, veg, and good quality protein. 

Helen:Okay.

Victoria: Simple stuff.

Helen: Yeah. So, with a lot of it, you're managing with the diet rather than with supplements and things?

Victoria: Yeah, so I'm very pro food first. I think we can get more than enough of our nutritional needs from our diet. So, we need for example lots of omega-3s, so having an oily fish at least three times a week. Everything that comes in fruit and veg we need in spades. So, you know, having a good quality protein with a load of veg, is really, really important.

And that, for most people, is all that you need, is to eat really, really cleanly. So not ultra-processed foods. Which takes a bit of time, and a bit of cooking, but it's fun if you like cooking. Well, it's fun for me. So, you know, just eating really well, and for most people that will be absolutely fine.

The only reason why I'm taking supplements is because of very specific things that came up in my testing. That's why I take those supplements. But as standard, I would say you don't need to take supplements if you eat well.

Helen: Coming back to the strength training then, how often are you doing that?

Victoria: Not as often as I should be, if I'm honest at the minute. It's a bit too hot. Usually, three times a week. I've been doing it ever since I was, like, in my early 20s. I love a class called Body Pump. I was a dancer when I was younger, so I loved music and dancing, so doing weights to music is just like heaven for me.

So, I do that, three times a week. At the moment that is not happening, 'cause it is far too hot to be doing it. Actually, it doesn't have to be much. You know, you don't even need to do something like that. You can actually just make sure that you're lifting weight. It can even be body weight, so like wall sits, squats, push-ups, really simple to do.

But as we get older, you know, you kind of forget, if we fall over as we get older, we need to be able to push ourselves up off the ground, so you need upper body strength. So doing, you know, something like push-ups, or doing things that increases the strength in your arms and your upper body is really important, so that you can get up off the ground as you get older.

It also helps if you want to escape from the care home. Being able to climb over a fence, 'cause you've got good body strength, is really important too.

Helen: So, I also do strength training.

Victoria: Mm-hmm.

Helen: But I think a bit different to what you do, because I'm doing deadlifts, and squats with quite a lot of weight, and rows and all of that kind of stuff. They did make me do a little bit of cardio this morning, and that was just way too hot.

Victoria: You need a mix of both. So, you need the cardio to support your heart health, absolutely. 

Helen: Yeah.

Victoria: Strength training can be in two different camps. So, you've got the stuff that you're doing, which is heavy weights, small number of reps, or you can go down the kind of body pump type route, which is lots of reps, smaller weights. And they work slightly differently, but they're both as effective, in terms of building muscle.

Helen: Mm-hmm. I run and do yoga as well, 

Victoria: Cool.

Helen: So, the strength training for me is kind of I feel like I need to go heavy.

Victoria: Yes. Yeah. For me it's just I do it because it's what I've always done, and I enjoy it. I tried doing the heavy weights, low reps, and I just got bored. So, I thought, do you know, I might as well just continue doing what I enjoy.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the kind of the thing with exercise is, if you find something that you love, you're likely to keep doing it. Whereas if you find something that someone tells you you should be doing, and you don't actually like it, there's a high chance that you're not gonna stick with it.

Victoria: Exactly. Exactly. And I do also something called Body Groove, which is, I call it my silly dancing. It's just putting on some music, and it's kind of functional movement. So, it includes, like crawling around on a floor like a child. It includes doing silly rhythms. You know, it's not like formal dancing.

It is just like spaffing around the living room of a morning. It's brilliant fun. It's super silly. But because it is designed on functional movement, it means that you are building up muscle, you are building up strength, as well as doing a bit of cardio as well. And it's fun. You know, it's designed to be fun and silly.

So, it means that I can, you know, get up and do something fun and silly, and have you know, 30 minutes of exercise every day, as opposed to just going, "Oh, I don't want to do it because it's boring."

Helen: So, are you following an app or something with that?

Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. So, I have two. I have the Body Groove App, which I signed up to, I don't know, years ago. Which I just love. It's like I said, it's silly. It has little bits of yoga in it, lots of functional movement, lots of silly dancing. 

And then I'm a very Les Mills 'cause that's what I used to do when I was younger. Which is the, you know, the Body Pump, which is the weights to music. But it's also, there's cardio as well in there as well. I enjoy it. 

But for me, it's the music bit. If you stick some music on, I will do exercise. It doesn't matter what, it's the music. Gotta have the music.

Helen: So, you're a big fan of a kitchen disco then?

Victoria: Absolutely. Yeah.

Helen: Think probably people underestimate it, in terms of, it's exercise, it's good for you.

Victoria: Yeah. When I was like dancing and competing, you know, I didn't think I was fit, because I was just having fun. But I was training five, six times a week, and I was dancing for three, four hours at a time.

Helen: Mm-hmm.

Victoria: And I kind of underestimated the muscle that I had, the level of fitness that I had, because I was just having fun.

There's also loads of research about dancing, and how it really helps with things like Alzheimer's, because you're constantly re-learning. And that kind of learning movement in your body as well, learning new ways to move your body, actually helps with neural pathways in the brain.

So, it's really good all-round thing. So silly dancing, definitely for the win.

Helen: My experience with dancers is also they're very flexible.

Victoria: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Helen: Which again is important as you get older 'cause you'll naturally stiffen.

Victoria: Yeah, yeah. And I notice it if I don't, like, you know, at the moment it's quite hot, so I'm not doing as much exercise as I would like. And I notice it physically, you know, of a morning I don't feel as, nimble as I could do.

Helen: Do you enjoy getting out in nature, and things like that as well?

Victoria: Oh, absolutely. I'm really, really lucky. I live in Oxfordshire. I live in a small town in the middle of the countryside, and I have a little brook and trees outside my house. So, I just literally have to look out the window, and it's lovely. 

Or I can go 10 minutes walk, and I'm up on the Ridgeway, and in the middle of nature. It's absolutely perfect, and yeah. That is again, another thing that's really, really important for our health.

Helen: How comfortable do you feel with where you're at in the ageing process?

Victoria: Ooh. Pretty good, actually. Do you know, I would not want to be anywhere else. I think, you know, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I feel like I am living my best life. 

There's something that comes with menopause. So, I hit menopause a few years back, and there's something that happens with menopause which I think is a real solidifying of who we are. And if we can embrace that change, we can become a lot more comfortable in our own skin. Yeah, for me, that's been really, really lovely. 

In terms of physically, I would like to be a bit fitter. But I know the reasons why. You know, I've been working all the hours. So, you know, that's my priority is to look after my health. But aside from that, I'm kinda like, yeah, life is good.

Helen: Can I be nosy and ask you how menopause was for you?

Victoria: I was really, really lucky. My periods just stopped. I think because of what I do, I was aware of, you know, what things could happen. I had a very brief period, and it was just literally like three weeks or so, where I was getting anxious driving the car.  And for like three weeks, I was like, if I had to do a long journey, I was getting palpitations and all sorts, which I think is quite common in women is to get anxiety, it's very situational. So, driving the car is a really common thing. 

And then I had a brief spell of a few hot flushes, which I put down to blood sugar dysregulation. So, it only ever happened if I'd had a few glasses of wine. And yeah, so it's like, okay, so I won't go out and have a few glasses of wine, or if I do, I'll have it with dinner. And that's massively changed as well. 

So, I literally, my period stopped and that was it. I'm like, "Yay, life's good."

Helen: I do find it so interesting how different people's experiences are.

Victoria: Yeah. And you know, I was saying to somebody earlier today actually that, you know, millions of women go through menopause without any symptoms at all. And yet we are taught that menopause is an oestrogen deficiency. Now, if it was an oestrogen deficiency, then every single woman on this planet would have menopause symptoms, and they don't. 

So therefore, there must be another reason that's causing symptoms. And I do a workshop, it's free, where I teach women about hormones. And I teach those reasons as to what's actually really going on underneath. So, what's driving those menopausal symptoms. 

Because yes, it's triggered by menopause, but it's not actually caused by that oestrogen decline. There are other factors that you can take into account. And when you do, and when you make some tiny changes, actually you can just breeze through menopause.

Helen: I'm with you. It was easy for me as well. Other than some hot flushes, I didn't really notice.

Victoria: Great.

Helen: Well, I figure that you get it at some stage in your life, 'cause I had really bad period pains, so.

Victoria: Same. A woman of 20 years of endometriosis, so I'm like, yeah, quite happy for them to just end. Don't need them.

Helen: Okay, I'm gonna ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, "I'm thinking about going grey," what hints and tips would you have for them?

Victoria: Oh, I'd say just do it, actually. Yeah. I don't think you need hints and tips. This is natural, right? This is your natural state. Embrace being who you are. You know, it's wonderful being older because you get to have the wisdom of, like, age. You get to have the radicalness of, you know, losing all the kind of like…I'm trying to think of the correct phrase.

There's something that happens when you lose that oestrogen. So, oestrogen's designed to make you compassionate. And I was gonna say lose compassion, but I really don't mean that, because you can still be compassionate as you get older. But you're not worried about it. 

You know, you're not worried about other people. You can just come into your own self. And when you come into your own self, whether or not you've got grey hair doesn't actually matter anymore. You know, you can just be. And I think that's the kind of the nice thing about going grey is that you can just be who you are, and it doesn't matter. It's just this is me. It's cool.

Helen: Cool. Well, I'm gonna say thanks so much for joining me. You've been a fascinating guest.

Victoria: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram @happier.grey. Have a great week.